What makes a perfect candidate or even company? You know the one where when you meet them or visit their offices, where you just know they’re something special? Is there a blueprint for how to be such a unicorn?
Today, William Vanderbloemen shares the 12 teachable traits you can master to be a unicorn candidate or company leader and we deep dive into four specific ones: Authenticity, Self-Awareness, Curiosity, and Connection – what those look like in action, and the data shows that anyone can master these skills with practice and intention, even if you think you’re not good at them. We discuss why these skills are anything but soft, and can actually catapult you to success. And William reveals the single biggest trait that helps you separate yourself from the crowd.
To access the episode transcript, please scroll down below.
Key Takeaways:
- Every one of the 12 habits of unicorns can be learned. While some may seem more innate than others or may show up differently for different people, they are something everyone can learn.
- In uncertain times, the people asking questions will be able to adapt quicker than those who are not.
- We live in the best time ever to work on self-awareness. You can work on your own stuff, on any level, and it is no longer considered quackery as it used to be.
“After studying 30,000 face-to-face interviews, we discovered that what really separates somebody from the crowd is how they treat other human beings.” — William Vanderbloemen
Episode References:
- The Empathy Edge podcast: April Hot Take: Why Empathy Starts with Self-Awareness
- Book: Be the Unicorn: 12 Data-Driven Habits that Separate the Best Leaders from the Rest: amazon.com/Be-Unicorn-Data-Driven-Separate-Leaders/dp/1400247101
- More book info and resources: www.TheUnicornBook.com
- Assessment model: www.VanderIndex.com
From Our Partner:
SparkEffect partners with organizations to unlock the full potential of their greatest asset: their people. Through their tailored assessments and expert coaching at every level, SparkEffect helps organizations manage change, sustain growth, and chart a path to a brighter future.
Go to sparkeffect.com/edge now and download your complimentary Professional and Organizational Alignment Review today.
About William Vanderbloemen, Founder & CEO, Vanderbloemen Search Group
William Vanderbloemen has been leading the Vanderbloemen Search Group for 15 years, where they are regularly retained to identify the best talent for teams, manage succession planning, and consult on all issues regarding teams. This year, Vanderbloemen will complete their 3,000th executive search. Prior to founding Vanderbloemen Search Group, William studied executive search under a mentor with 25+ years of executive search at the highest level. His learning taught him the very best corporate practices, including the search strategies used by the internationally known firm Russell Reynolds. Prior to that, William served as a Senior Pastor at one of the largest Presbyterian Churches in the United States.
Connect with William:
Vanderbloemen Search Group: vanderbloemen.com
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/williamvanderbloemen
Facebook: facebook.com/vanderbloemen
Instagram: instagram.com/wvanderbloemen
Connect with Maria:
Get the podcast and book: TheEmpathyEdge.com
Learn more about Maria and her work: Red-Slice.com
Hire Maria to speak at your next event: Red-Slice.com/Speaker-Maria-Ross
Take my LinkedIn Learning Course! Leading with Empathy
LinkedIn: Maria Ross
Instagram: @redslicemaria
X: @redslice
Facebook: Red Slice
Threads: @redslicemaria
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Welcome to the empathy edge podcast, the show that proves why cash flow, creativity and compassion are not mutually exclusive. I’m your host, Maria Ross, I’m a speaker, author, mom, facilitator and empathy advocate. And here you’ll meet trailblazing leaders and executives, authors and experts who embrace empathy to achieve radical success. We discuss all facets of empathy, from trends and research to the future of work to how to heal societal divisions and collaborate more effectively. Our goal is to redefine success and prove that empathy isn’t just good for society. It’s great for business. What makes a perfect candidate, or even company, you know, the one where, when you meet them or visit their offices, you just know there’s something special. Is there a blueprint to how to be such a unicorn? My guest today, William Vanderbloemen, founder and CEO of Vanderbloemen search group is here to talk about the 12 teachable traits you can master to be a unicorn candidate or company leader. He’s the author of be the unicorn 12 data driven habits that separate the best leaders from the rest, a blueprint to master these traits based on impressive research and rigorous data gathering. For 15 years, Williams firm has been regularly retained to identify the best talent for teams, manage succession planning and consult on all issues regarding teams. Prior to founding the company, Williams studied executive search under a mentor with 25 years of executive search at the highest level, his learning taught him the very best corporate practices, including the search strategies used by the internationally known firm Russell Reynolds. Prior to that, William served as a senior pastor at one of the largest Presbyterian churches in the US today, William shares the 12 traits, and we deep dive into four specific ones, authenticity, self awareness, curiosity and connection, what those look like in action, and the data shows that anyone can master these skills with practice and intention, even if you think you’re not good at them. We discuss why these skills are anything but soft and can actually catapult you to success. And William reveals the single biggest trait that helps you separate yourself from the crowd. Don’t miss it. Take a listen. Big. Welcome to you. William Vanderbloemen, to the empathy edge podcast. I am so excited to talk about the 12 traits that separate the best leaders from the rest. Welcome to the show. Thanks, Maria.
William Vanderbloemen 02:41
It’s a joy to be with you.
Maria Ross 02:42
So before we get into it, tell us a little bit about your story. And how did you get into this work of helping leaders and helping organizations? Yeah,
William Vanderbloemen 02:53
well, it’s, it’s a weird story, Maria, I mean, like, well, I couldn’t have drawn it up and and I think the advice I give people who are looking for jobs, how do I find a perfect job? There are a number of different lenses I’ve put on when I’m looking for that, but one that would be a marker of my story is the job you’re thinking of taking should be a job that you’re only able to do because of all the things you’ve done leading up to right now. That’s the dream job, if you can say I’m taking my experience from this one and this one and this one and this and I had a very jagged or different path, I guess be a way to say it. I was a entrepreneur as a kid, for sure, started, I don’t know how many businesses learned things like distribution when I was a paper boy, figured out that the routes were really pretty randomly laid out. So I bought out a few routes from buddies, and, you know, reconfigured things and sold off the parts I didn’t want, including the dogs that chased me. I got rid of them. That was, that was me early, yeah. Then in college, I did a really, really good job of being a wild child. And, you know, or prodigal journey, if you want to. So about halfway through college, Faith got very real to me, and that’s not meant to proselytize or be pushy, but it just changed. It turned things around for me. And I’m like, wow, this is pretty amazing. I’d like to help people turn around. I love seeing change, and I didn’t know it then, but I’m a sales guy, so getting up making a pitch is, I didn’t even know it, but I like doing that. So yeah, ended up being a pastor. And I’ll speed this up. You ask a pastor, a recovering preacher, and open ended question, not good pastored. And the talent pool at the time was really, really small in my age group, particularly, lot of lot of boomers and retirees. So what that meant was scarcity of talent means you don’t have to be that good to rise to the top. And I ended up pastoring one of the probably top three Christian churches in the country, oldest church in the city of Houston in. And I was the youngest pastor they’d ever talked to. They were nice, nice people, but they really should have had a search firm. Shouldn’t hired me. Was there six years, went through divorce, which I would not recommend, but found myself single dad. What am I going to do? Joined a very large oil and gas company, Fortune 200 and he was on a management rotation, and that year, I was on the HR team, and the CEO had been there nine years, which I didn’t know is a lifetime for a company that large, right? It was bigger than Starbucks at the time, and he said, I’ve been here long enough it’s time to find my successor. We’re hiring a search firm. Well, I’d never heard of such thing. I knew what it was, but my rotation that year was in HR, so I was on the HR team, and, you know, I got to see firsthand what a search firm could do. And it made me say, Wow, let’s build something like that for churches, because churches don’t move that fast, it was awful. So I made the brilliant move in the fall of 2008 of quitting my job and starting a search firm, which 2008 was just a super good time to quit your job. Perfect timing, yeah, 16 year later. 16 years later. Here we are, yeah, and I’m getting to help something that was really important to me, and it’s branched out since then. So that’s
Maria Ross 06:20
all good, yeah. And I love you know, the title of your book, which we mentioned in the in the bio earlier, is be the unicorn, 12 data driven habits that separate the best leaders from the rest. And so was that book a direct result of the placements you were making, the leaders you were talking to, the companies that you were working with,
William Vanderbloemen 06:39
100% Maria, I wanted to do research during the pandemic, when everything was shut down, we had some extra time, and so I thought, well, this the first year, we’re not going to set a record on all fronts, so we’ve got a little time we can look at, well, we’ve done a rocket ride, like the best candidates we’ve ever interviewed. What do they have in common? So that we can spot great candidates, or we can be a better search firm. What we found, after studying 30,000 face to face interviews that we’ve done with not just talent, but the very best, we found, they do have things in common, and it wasn’t anything like I thought it would be. The list was not what I’d predict. In fact, I was wrong on most fronts.
Maria Ross 07:18
What did you actually think? What were one or two of the top traits you thought you’d find?
William Vanderbloemen 07:22
Oh, intellect, privilege. I happen to you look behind me. I happen to be born into a family that could afford to send me to Wake Forest for undergrad, and then I got a scholarship at Princeton for seminary. So, like, I thought it would be things like that, or even simple as well. He was the quarterback and she was the head cheerleader, valedictorian, or whatever. Knew what it was, and this is what I’m so excited to do with you. It was 12 habits that these, we call them unicorns, works for you where you live, but 12 habits that unicorns tend toward, that most of the rest of us neglect, and all 12 of them centered around you could call it emotional intelligence, soft skills, empathy, like kind of right in the zone of where you’re living, we discovered that what really separates somebody from the crowd is how they treat other human beings. And now it’s not just my opinion. It’s a data driven project that shows these things. If you do these things, you will stand out in the crowd. It’s like, it’s like, you ever, you ever meet somebody. Doesn’t happen often. You meet them, and within 345, minutes, you’re like, oh my gosh, this one’s different. This one’s special. Yeah, that’s what these unicorns give off. And instead of finding a map, like a how to find those people, kind of guidance system, we found a blueprint for building them. Because every one of these habits can be learned. Everyone can become more empathetic. It creates a dilemma, which we’ll hear about in this fall. But
Maria Ross 08:59
yeah, no. And that’s, I think that’s the important thing there, is that many of these things are teachable. Many of them stem from from habits and characteristics that are innate. It sometimes they look different for different people, depending on how emotional they are versus logical, or how they experience the world, or how they view the world, and I’m learning a lot more about that in terms of even being empathetic looks different to different people, depending on on how their brain works, right? But I think that’s the important thing, is we can’t just give up, and that’s always when I’m in front of a room full of leaders and I tell people that empathy is innate in us, but sometimes that muscle atrophies over time, whether it’s upbringing or environment. So I think it’s a cop out for many leaders to say, I’m just not naturally a people person, or I’m just not naturally empathetic the way you exhibit that could look different than what people you know have in mind, but it’s absolutely. Accessible to everyone. So I love that your book talks about these in terms of being teachable traits and to your point of being data driven. That’s exactly the work I do is showing people the data and the research that proves how empathy can be an advantage for you and how it can actually help you succeed and not succeed in spite of it. So I want to dig in a little
William Vanderbloemen 10:21
bit. Sorry to interrupt you, let me ask you a question. You’re the empathy expert. I think I know the answer. Can AI use empathy? Do you foresee that day?
Maria Ross 10:31
We’ve done a lot of episodes about that already, and I’ll link to many of those in the show notes. So yeah, there’s it’s a much more nuanced question that a yes or no, and we’ve spoken to many AI experts on the show so about that question. So let’s dig into this idea of under How did you come to an understanding, or what is your definition of soft skills, or human skills, as it as it relates vis a vis to business acumen or expertise? Well,
William Vanderbloemen 11:01
the research that we used was really an archeological dig. You know, sometimes you go into a research project with the conclusion you want to be true. That wasn’t the case. We just started digging around carefully and see what’s under this, what’s under this, what’s under this, and what separated these unicorns from everyone else was the way they treated individuals, human to human skills, and we saw it in 12 different manifestations. All the unicorns had a higher than normal testing around these 12 habits. We discovered 12 habits. We interviewed all 30,000 we surveyed them all. Then we surveyed a quarter million people to lay them against the 30 so lots of forensics that led to a real simple conclusion. I tell people, if you read the chapter titles in the book, you’d go, William, I could have written this and and the reality is, the alternate title that we joked about was, oh, I guess Mom was right. Most of these lessons or just like, treat people well,
Maria Ross 12:01
right? Everything we needed to know we learned in kindergarten, right?
William Vanderbloemen 12:04
That sort of thing. But this actually has the research to put underneath it absolutely
Maria Ross 12:08
and that’s what I love about it. I’m all about making these, making these claims about emotional intelligence and soft, quote, unquote, soft skills, which drives me crazy that they’re called soft skills, because they actually impact the bottom line, but people like you, people like me, others I know in sort of the the empathy advocacy space, are focused on on the ROI, are focused on the business case, and the data and the research that shows that this actually is not just somebody trying to equate these two things that have Nothing to do with each other. It actually does result in success. So let’s talk a little bit about a few. So I just I’m for folks listening. I’m going to list out the 12 traits, fast, authentic, agile solver, anticipator, prepared, self aware, curious, connected, likable, productive and purpose driven. So I want to dig into a few of these with you, and have you share how this showed up in your research, and what are some examples of it in action and as you, as you work with folks, what are, what are different ways that folks can learn this skill, build this skill for themselves, if they feel that for some reason, they’re particularly weak in this area. So let’s start with authentic and what
William Vanderbloemen 13:27
you mean by that, yeah, and let me, just before we dive into those, say anyone can learn these. It’s never been easier. There’s a map now it’s data driven, and by the way, there’s low hanging fruit, because the generation, you know, I’m the very edge of Gen X. I got millennial kids, Gen Z kids, and then whatever’s behind that, A, or whatever their alpha, yeah, and so, well, actually the next gen is Gen a, I then alpha, but, but the lack of human to human skills among the digital natives is frightening, and it’s because the whole Gen we gave them phones to look at, and they scroll, scroll, scroll. So so it’s easier than you can imagine. We just hosted a rehearsal dinner and for our son and the you know RSVP via email that people didn’t have RSVP, somebody wrote my wife back that just said, RSVP. Like that’s a question. That’s not an answer. Anyway, authenticity, basically, this is the hunger everybody wants. Are you the same on stage as you are the same off stage? Is there a difference between what I see in the boardroom and how you’re going to treat me wherever else you see me like? Is it one person, or is there stage William and behind stage, William and there, you know, that’s a balance. I mean, it used to be when I was cutting my leadership teeth. You never let them see you sweat. Same lead strength, right?
Maria Ross 14:51
Or there’s business you, and then there’s personal you, and never the two shall meet. Yeah, right.
William Vanderbloemen 14:55
And that was one side of a spectrum. And I don’t know whether it was good or not, but it’s a spectrum. Now we’re on the other side of the spectrum where, you know, Brene Brown has done amazing work and research. She actually lives about four doors from me, and so I would say I know her, but actually the truth is, my dog knows her dog, but, but, you know, it has led some people to think that authenticity means sharing every worst, scary part of you in your whole world, that’s not authenticity. So it’s not just go vomit on people. That’s not Authenticity. Authenticity. I feel like you’re authentic because I feel like you see me and you hear me. That makes you authentic to me. And in each of the chapters of the book, we go into case study for the authentic we have quotes from all the unicorns on what they do to practice authenticity. And then we have a section of it, and here’s how you apply it. Now, can I give you a how to apply it? That’s not in the book, okay? Authenticity, authenticity hack and and you’re the expert, so correct me if I’ve got it wrong. But you know, when you look people in the eye, where do you look? Nearly everybody says, Well, I just look them in the eye, right? Yeah, no, no, not really. Which eye? Well, I don’t know. I just look them in the eye, yeah, I know. I’m
Maria Ross 16:10
trying to think of how I do that. I’m not sure. Do I look at the time? I
William Vanderbloemen 16:13
don’t know, because I can look in that one little circle and I’m looking as much as I can. Oh, okay, so here’s the hack 90. You only use one eye to see. Use one eye to see, and the other is distance perception. That’s just the way every Humans built. 90% of all humans on the planet are right eye dominant. Their left eye just provides perception. It’s a higher number than who’s left handed, who’s right handed. So if you’re willing to gamble, there’s a 90% chance you’re right. If you guess that someone’s right eyed, and when you have a conversation with them and look them dead in just their right eye, nowhere else you ever talk to somebody, and you go, they made me feel like I was the only person in the room. That’s one way to do it, yeah, and if you get a really good interviewers, they know to do that, but it’s a little known act, and maybe you’re wrong out of 10 times. But who cares, right? But look them dead in the eye and then they will feel seen. I actually interviewed a few homeless mission directors, very large homeless missions, you know, like, what is the biggest source of pain for people suffering with homelessness? And every one of them said, Oh, they don’t feel seen, because, you know, you pull up to the stoplight and do you look at them? Do you not look at them? Do you look being seen makes you feel like the person looking at you is authentic well, and also,
Maria Ross 17:29
I think just kind of more macro to that is just, if you’re if, if people get the sense that you’re presenting a persona, that’s right, you’re not who you say you are. And I think that’s what happens sometimes with leaders who who unbeknownst unintentionally to what they’re trying to do, they’re not effective because they’re trying to put on a quote, unquote leadership persona, whether that’s out of fear or insecurity or imposter syndrome, they’re acting in certain ways that are actually not congruent with who they are and how they act outside of work. And you know that because you know those people that are in the workplace with you, or those leaders that potentially have been psychologically abusive and you’re like but I know they have a family. I know they have kids like people love them somewhere else. Why? Why can’t they bring that to work? Right? And it’s often because it’s out of fear or insecurity or hurt that they just think they have to present themselves in a different way, because I have to present my leader persona to you, or offer you in your in your instance, the perfect candidate persona.
William Vanderbloemen 18:37
Yeah, what we’re seeing in candidates right now, and I think it’s a this pendulum swing is, uh, false humility. That’s very off putting. It’s the same thing. It’s just the other side of the spectrum.
Maria Ross 18:48
Yeah, give us. Give us. What? What does that? What does that look like? I know about humble brags, but what is, what
William Vanderbloemen 18:53
is the living the humble brag okay? I mean, like, you know, what do you do for living? Well, I work alongside a great team that helps companies find their you know, hey, you can also say Bossy Pants way. I’m the CEO and founder of a company that helps right? There is a third ground you can say, Oh, we had crazy ideas 16 years ago and started a company. We had some great people come join us, and we’ve gotten do a lot of great work. I’m still learning, but I feel like I’ve learned some things along the way. Yeah,
Maria Ross 19:24
and you can be really proud of the work you’ve done, too. That’s okay, yeah, yeah. I think that’s such a great point, because, you know, we talk about marrying humility with empathy, because empathy actually requires humility for you to be able to put your own narrative aside for a second, sure to take in someone else’s. And I think people misunderstand what humility means, and it’s the pendulum swings too far each way. Either they’re like you said, they’re, they’re braggadocious or or they’re just trying to downplay every great accomplishment they ever had. And this. Facility, guys, this is what I tried. My son just turned 10. Yesterday. We we talked to him about being confident but humble and kind at the same time good, and learning that those are not either ORs. Those are both hands you can walk softly and carry a big stick exactly, boom, right there. Okay. The second one I want to talk to talk to you about is because this is actually pillar number one in the new book The Empathy dilemma. Is self awareness. So what? How does that show up in your work? And what is an example of that from the people that you interviewed and the unicorns that you spoke to,
William Vanderbloemen 20:38
it showed up. It shows up in everybody’s work, whether they realize it or not,
Maria Ross 20:43
the lack of it or the presence of it, right? Lack of it, lack
William Vanderbloemen 20:46
of it. The people who have presence, who have self awareness as a presence, are often dealing with people that are so unaware that they don’t even realize who they’re talking to. There’s a busy thing about themselves, they’re not so it’s not a trait that gets congratulated a lot. But I think if you think of the 12 habits as an archway with 12 stones, I think self awareness is the keystone to the whole thing. Pull it out. Everything else falls. You put it in. It’s easier to build the arch, right? And the funny thing is, we surveyed all 30,000 of the unicorns. Massive survey hired behavioral scientists. And, you know, did it right, right? And one of the things we asked them was to force rank the 12 habits. What do you need? Really need to work on? What are you really doing? Great at last place, self graded last place by a long, long, long shot. All the unicorns said, I got to get better at self awareness, which is usually the number one sign that you’re doing pretty good at it,
Maria Ross 21:46
if you’re self aware that you’re not very good at being self aware. That’s
William Vanderbloemen 21:50
so we surveyed the quarter million people, like the normal people, right? And we asked one of the things we asked them was, would you say you’re below average, average, above average in self awareness, one to five, right? 93% of everyone said they’re above average at self awareness. Now, I don’t know how many math majors are on this podcast, but I’m pretty sure there’s not a group on the planet where 93% of the group is above average. Yeah, yeah. It’s 50 and 50. So, so it’s self awareness is the single biggest blind spot for all of us, and it’s the thing people want to work on the most when they’ve already got it. And you know, you say, Well, I’m glad I’m not one of those 93% Hey, do you remember the first time you heard your voice recorded? Oh, yeah, yeah, I do. I was really not happy. I was, Who is this?
Maria Ross 22:44
Because it doesn’t sound like the voice echoing it. Oh,
William Vanderbloemen 22:47
I listened to me all. Let me tell you something. I listened to me all day long, and I know what I was saying. That’s not me. That was kind of where I was, right, right? Yeah, that’s a lack of self awareness, yeah. And it’s almost impossible.
Maria Ross 22:58
How what is a tip or two on how to work on your self awareness?
William Vanderbloemen 23:03
Well, I think we live in the best time ever to work on self awareness. Why? William, well, you can work on your own stuff on any number of levels now, and it not be just quackery like and what do I mean? Okay, on a self awareness at a small level is learning what work you do best and what work takes more energy out of you. I can do detail work. I sent every bill when we started the company. I like, you know, cook, bottle washer, the whole thing. But the reality is, there are fewer mistakes on detail or in the documents. If I’m not doing them, I have more energy. I’ve got more time to give in things that so self awareness can be as simple as you’re interviewing somebody. You got a lot of C suite people listening today they’re interviewing and you ask them that old question that’s kind of thrown away as an icebreaker. So tell me about yourself. Some people are really thorough, and they’re like, you know, when I was one, I started walking, and then then you got other people who just talk about what they have for breakfast, like, that’s a great question to ask. It’s not a throwaway icebreaker, because you can answer it in a way. And if you’re listening for this kind of answer, you can figure out self awareness. Oh, you’re saying, Tell me about me. Maria, well, okay, let me tell you what I’m learning. Sign number one, it’s a present tense verb. It’s not a past. You know, I’m learning. And Maria, I’d love to come work with you, because your work is taking off. I mean, my goodness, you hit a nerve right before the pandemic, and your work’s just gonna so you’re probably growing real fast, and it’s up into the ride, and you’re making it up as you go. I actually thrive in those environments. I’m a seven on the Enneagram. I love the next party. I’m an extrovert. In my first job, I was supposed to build an email list. They didn’t even have an email list. They didn’t know what software he’s had to figure it out. As it went, we grew it to 100,000 email addresses within 18 months. Was pretty good. Second job, another one, where I had to go figure it out. Lot of people get paid. Realized by going to figure it out, I love it. Not Want an accountant. Don’t hire me.
Maria Ross 25:07
Yeah, yeah. It’s really, it’s really understanding those strengths and also understanding the blind spots and those emotional triggers too, knowing yourself well enough to know when things aren’t going well, how do you respond? And however you respond is okay. It’s just, what do you do to mitigate where you know, okay, this is what tends to happen to me. And I get, you know, I get a little upset. I My heart rate starts to go up. And so what I need in those moments is to leave the room and take a few deep breaths, or whatever. It’s just knowing that about yourself. And like you said, No, and that’s like you said, you know. And what I talk about in the book, in the new book, is, you know, there, like you said, there are lots of resources out there to help you. There’s the Enneagram, there’s Myers Briggs, there’s something called the hearty assessment that I talk about. There is Clifton.
William Vanderbloemen 25:59
Sorry, we built this. So we built an index. It’s at Vander index.com but it’s how do you measure up in each of these 12 habits compared to the general normal population and the unicorns? What are your three best? What are your three worst? We actually even built in a 360 tool where managers could give it to teams and teams could take it about I’ll have a conversation about we as a team are really good at these three, and we’re really lagging in these three. Okay, great. We
Maria Ross 26:26
are going to put a link to that in the show notes at Vander index.com that’s fantastic. Okay, let’s talk about my favorite one, because it is the number one trait of empathic people, which is curiosity. Yeah, so how did that show up in your research in terms of identifying if or self identifying candidate? How did candidates determine if they were curious people?
William Vanderbloemen 26:49
Well, you know, over the years, I’ve been doing this 16 years now, I have learned that here’s the best interview question I can ask. Now, when I do, I do very few searches. Now we really do have a great team. They do most of the work. If I’m involved in a search, it usually means I’m interviewing the finalists before they go to so there’s been a lot of other stuff done, and you’ve got to do baseline interviewing, right? But when you get down toward the end, here’s the single most effective interview question I’ve ever come up with. All right, you ready? Yeah. What questions do you have for me? Perfect. I learn more from hearing people’s questions as I get older than I do hearing their answers. And I think that, you know, I’m looking for curious because we’re entering forget and don’t forget empathy. I was about to say, Forget empathy. I often, but you just shut the podcast down if I said that. So forget whatever you want to forget, but you know, the the future is less certain than maybe ever. Like, what is this AI thing going to do? What happens? You know, can’t watch the news over the weekend because something might happen in the Middle East. That makes me crazy. I it’s a really uncertain time, and the people who are asking questions will be able to adapt quicker than the people who aren’t. So I’m incredibly interested in people who are curious. And to me, a lot of the automated tasks going to be better served by computers, but human curiosity will be a very hard thing to get replaced.
Maria Ross 28:14
Love that. Love that. Yeah. I mean, I definitely found the right career, because as a kid, I was, you know, why do you want to know that? Why are you always asking questions? Why are you so nosy?
William Vanderbloemen 28:24
Well, I asked, I actually, when I talk about this in a longer format, we don’t have time now, but I talk about how it atrophies two year you get tired of how many times the two year old says, why? Yes, we are trained to not ask questions, shut up and do what you’re supposed to, what like the world is going to try and drag that out of you, but you’re innately preset to a why? Yeah,
Maria Ross 28:43
exactly, and it’s why. You know, I’ve learned this little positive parenting tip is praising my son about the questions he asks. That’s a great question. You ask really good questions, and constantly reinforcing that and helping us reinforce that in young people too, so that they do, they don’t just go along. They question the
William Vanderbloemen 29:05
the single best mentor I’ve had for growth in our business, the guy that I saw when we first started growing, and when I was interviewing my friends say, who should I go to? I went to all my high growth friends and said, Who coaches you and and the reference that one of the leaders I respect most of the world said to me, said, William, go to him. He will get you asking questions that expand your mind. He’s not going to give you the eight ways to grow your business or the seven proven steps to blah, blah, blah. He’s going to ask questions that cause you to ask questions that opens your mind. Yeah,
Maria Ross 29:39
asking better questions. I love it. And then finally, let’s talk about connected because how do you how do you measure that in a data driven study?
William Vanderbloemen 29:48
Yeah, this has flipped quite a bit in the 16 years since I’ve started doing this. Used to be I got some more friends on Facebook. I got some more friends on Facebook. I’ve got likes. I’ve got this. That’s. I’m connected, right? Well, it’s so nauseatingly overdone now, right? And on how many platforms? Oh, there. Here’s one really super way to supercharge your connectivity. Okay? Do fewer conversations and community quality, not quantity, right when I moved here to Houston to pastor this big old church, it was right at Christmas time and all of the different, you know, groups of friends that come together, or support groups or Sunday school classes have their Christmas party. And I thought, well, I can get to every Christmas party. I can knock out meeting half of this congregation in three weeks. I had no idea what a bad idea that was. I could drop into a party and go say hello for 30 minutes so I could max out how many parties I could get to that night. And not only did no one feel like they talked to me, everybody thought I blew them off. Oh, so what I’m interested in now is I go to an event and I say I’m going to have 320 minute conversations here, and it’s going to be about more. What do they say? You know, surface level conversations of the weather, the next level down is about events. Then you can talk about people, but then there’s ideas. So I try and get down to, let’s talk about, you know, events or ideas, and not just people in the weather. But I think if you’ll focus on fewer, more thorough conversations, the person yeah and look them in the eye, the people you’re talking to, will tell your story for you, and you’ll feel unconnected
Maria Ross 31:31
absolutely, yeah, I’m a huge proponent of quality over quantity in everything, really, and not just in that, but just in so many things In our lives. So this has been such a great conversation as we wrap up, I just want to ask if there’s any more macro advice or a little golden nugget you want to share with people who, again, may be feeling like this, all sounds great, and I’m terrible at all this. I don’t know that I’ll ever get better at being able to read people or connect with people. What would you say to them? Yeah, I
William Vanderbloemen 32:05
would say that. First of all, I don’t know if you’re going to get better. Only you can answer that. You know, like it’s on you listen or decide whether you get better. I think in the book, we’ve built the perfect treadmill that will get you in better shape than any other fitness equipment on the planet, and now you have to get on it. So I don’t know whether you’ll get better listener, but I know you can, and I’ve seen it happen. And if there’s any way that this book can help you, all the resources, every part of the book, everything bonus content, all those things, you’ll find that the unicorn book.com, the unicorn book.com. I hope it helps you, and I hope it you know, if you’re a C suite leader right now, what would happen if, when people come to your company, everyone they met, they walk away going, you know, within five minutes, I was like, that person’s different. The security guard was different. The person I met in the elevator was what if people left your company with that feeling? That’s what happens when you train a team of unicorn unicorns.
Maria Ross 33:03
I love it. I love it, and you’ve already given us our great place to connect and get more information. The unicorn book.com. William, thank you so much for your time today and your insights. The book is phenomenal. Everybody. Check it out. Be the unicorn. 12 data driven habits that separate the best leaders from the rest. And I appreciate being in conversation with
William Vanderbloemen 33:24
you today
Maria Ross 33:27
Absolutely. Thanks so much, and thank you everyone for listening to another episode of the empathy edge podcast. If you like what you heard, you know what to do. Rate, review, subscribe, share it with a friend, and until next time, remember that cash flow, creativity and compassion are not mutually exclusive. Take care and be kind For more on how to achieve radical success through empathy. Visit the empathy edge.com there you can listen to past episodes, access show notes and free resources. Book me for a Keynote or workshop and sign up for our email list to get new episodes, insights, news and events. Please follow me on Instagram at Red slice Maria, never forget, empathy is your superpower. Use it to make your work and the world a better place.
