We have talked a lot on this show about the benefits of a diverse and inclusive culture and how it leads to outstanding business results. But did you also know how DEI helps your company manage risk and future-proof against churn, productivity loss, and potentially falling behind in the market?
Today, you will hear one of the best definitions of DEI and how it enhances your organization. And the definition will leave you hungry for dessert!
Vivian Acquah shares a very clear – and delicious – definition of DEI, how the strategies and mindsets ensure your organization manages risk effectively, the financial costs you pay when you actively shy away from DEI, and an amazing look at how she uses virtual reality to help leaders truly understand what many in their organizations experience on a daily basis.
To access the episode transcript, please scroll down below.
Key Takeaways:
- While the term DEI has been vilified recently, DEI is just like the best carrot cake – every aspect of the ingredients, the cooking temperature, and all of the elements make it great.
- Company loyalty is no longer guaranteed just because you pay your employees.
- Partnering with, not powering over, your employees gives you better, stronger, and longer-term results.
- What motivates you may not be what motivates your employees. We all have different motivators.
“What I see happening now with the companies that are walking away, they are making a lot of short-term decisions that are going to impact them in the long run.” — Vivian Acquah
Episode References:
- Drive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us by Daniel Pink
- Help Them Grow or Watch Them Go by Julie Winkel Giulioni and Beverly Kaye
- TEDx: I’ve Lived as a Man and as a Woman: Here’s What I Learned – Paula Stone Williams
From Our Partner:
SparkEffect partners with organizations to unlock the full potential of their greatest asset: their people. Through their tailored assessments and expert coaching at every level, SparkEffect helps organizations manage change, sustain growth, and chart a path to a brighter future.
Go to sparkeffect.com/edge now and download your complimentary Professional and Organizational Alignment Review today.
About Vivian Acquah, Certified DEI Trainer
Vivian Acquah CDE®, is a respected DEI executive known for creating inclusive workplace environments. Her strategic approach blends analysis and practical tools to address systemic barriers to equity and equality. Passionate about DEI education, she uses innovative methods like virtual reality for immersive and transformational learning. With engaging training, she drives cultural transformation and boosts employee engagement.
Her name, which translates to ‘water,’ symbolizes her role as an extinguisher of DEI-related fires. Vivian provides tangible strategies for embracing inclusive changes, benefiting high-profile clients such as Heineken, LinkedIn, Google, Indeed, Deloitte, TIBCO, Cargill, Swift, Acrolinx, KLM, and Zalando.
Connect with Vivian:
Amplify DEI: amplifydei.com
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/vivianacquah
Instagram: instagram.com/vivalavivenl
Threads: threads.net/@vivalavivenl
Enjoy this deal!
Amplify DEI Cards Conversation starters for your team or other group to start down the DEI journey: https://cards.amplifydei.com/amplify-dei-cards-bundle/
Get 10% off when you use code EMPATHY at checkout
Connect with Maria:
Get Maria’s books on empathy: Red-Slice.com/books
Learn more about Maria’s work: Red-Slice.com
Hire Maria to speak: Red-Slice.com/Speaker-Maria-Ross
Take the LinkedIn Learning Course! Leading with Empathy
LinkedIn: Maria Ross
Instagram: @redslicemaria
Facebook: Red Slice
Threads: @redslicemaria
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Welcome to the empathy edge podcast, the show that proves why cash flow, creativity and compassion are not mutually exclusive. I’m your host, Maria Ross, I’m a speaker, author, mom, facilitator and empathy advocate. And here you’ll meet trailblazing leaders and executives, authors and experts who embrace empathy to achieve radical success. We discuss all facets of empathy, from trends and research to the future of work to how to heal societal divisions and collaborate more effectively. Our goal is to redefine success and prove that empathy isn’t just good for society, it’s great for business. We’ve talked a lot on this show about the benefits of a diverse and inclusive culture and how it leads to outstanding business results. But did you also know that dei helps your company manage risk and future proof against churn, productivity loss and potentially falling behind in the market. Today, you get to hear one of the best definitions of dei I’ve ever heard, and how it enhances your organization. And let’s just say the definition will leave you hungry for dessert. I loved talking with Vivian Acquah today, someone I’ve long admired on social media. Vivian is a certified dei trainer and a well respected dei executive known for creating inclusive workplace environments. Her strategic approach blends analysis and practical tools to address systemic barriers to equity and equality. Passionate about dei education, she uses innovative methods like virtual reality for immersive and transformational learning. With engaging training, she drives cultural transformation and boosts employee engagement. Fun fact, her name, which translates to water, symbolizes her role as an extinguisher of dei related fires. Vivian provides tangible strategies for embracing inclusive changes benefiting high profile clients such as Heineken, LinkedIn, Google, indeed, Deloitte, Tibco, Cargill, Swift, acrolinx, KLM and Zalando and many, many more today, Vivian shares a very clear and delicious definition of dei how The strategies and mindsets ensure your organization manages risk effectively, the financial costs you pay when you actively shy away from dei and an amazing look at how she uses virtual reality to help leaders truly understand what many in their organizations experience on a daily basis. Such a great conversation. Take a listen. Welcome Vivian Acquah to the empathy edge podcast. I have been wanting to have you on this show for a really long time. We’ve been orbiting each other on social media. It seems like forever, but I know it hasn’t been and welcome to the show. Thanks for joining us today.
Vivian Acquah 02:57
Thank you, Maria, for having me, and it’s such an honor to be here and to having this conversation in these times.
Maria Ross 03:05
Oh my gosh, we need to. And you are, you know, as we talked about, we heard in your bio just now, you’re a respected dei executive. You’ve worked for some really big brands who understand the power and the ROI of Dei, and that is the narrative and the story we are trying to continue to get out there and help people understand that dei is not about excluding groups. It’s actually about including more groups. So, yeah, yeah. So let’s start before we get into our conversation around dei as a risk management strategy, as something that if you don’t think about it, it can cost you financially before we get into all that good stuff. Just really quickly. Can you tell us how you got into this work? Kind of what’s your story? Why are you so passionate about this?
Vivian Acquah 03:53
I’m passionate because of the fact that I, well, I’m in the Netherlands, born and raised Ghanaian woman, and I have encountered different exclusion, different ways of being excluded, but the one that was a tipping point was me telling my damn managers that I was pregnant five weeks. Didn’t say to my family or friends. I told my managers first, and the reception of my news was very poor. I wasn’t met with empathy, and for me personally, it felt like I cheated on them by becoming pregnant, and that’s also when the bullying started. So it could have impacted my child, because my it impacted my well being at the time. And luckily, I had a midwife who warned me, like, what are you doing? And this is not the role that you want to be on, because it’s very stressful working under such high pressure and also dealing with being bullied. And I made a decision to go on early maternity leave, which is possible in the Netherlands, and once the moment that my child was born, that was when I realized I need to do something for him. So I need. To work on creating a virtual soil for inclusion so that my child can read the my child and his generation can reap the benefits from him. Orlando is now 11, so I’m I’m very lucky and happy to say that he didn’t, he wasn’t impacted by it, but I look into his eyes every day and see the reason why I’m advocating for this, and it’s not an easy journey, especially at the moment, right now, it’s not an easy journey. But still, he’s the reason why I’m doing this work.
Maria Ross 05:29
I love it. Well, I empathize with you. My son is about to turn 11 next month, and that is actually how I got started in all this empathy work, was I was really frustrated by the models of leadership he was seeing in the world when he was two and a half. And that drives my work as well, is we’ve got to help people understand that empathetic leadership is the way to go, and not just because it’s the right thing to do, but it actually has really great ROI for your business. So I’m trying to make the business case for leaders to say, hey, this isn’t what you think it is. It’s not being weak, it’s not being submissive. You can actually be confidently empathetic, and you can make really tough business decisions, but do it with compassion and humanity and empathy. So we are simpatico, I love it, and your son, I love it. We’ll have to, maybe we’ll connect
Vivian Acquah 06:19
ourselves, right? So they’re the same aging like, wow, this is serendipity moment here. We didn’t notice people. We didn’t notice we
Maria Ross 06:27
didn’t know this before we started recording. So we you and I talk, and we’ve had a lot of different dei experts on this show over the last four or five years talking about different aspects of Dei, the impact to the business, the benefits to the business, the downsides of ignoring it, which is something that I’m really trying to get out there to leaders and organizations right now. So before we get into that, I would like you to level, set us of this conversation and tell us what your definition of diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives, or philosophy from a business perspective, what is the definition of that? I’ll make
Vivian Acquah 07:04
it very simple for those of you who are listening to me and don’t know the way that I talk. I always make it simple as your business, your organization, is creating the best carrot cake, and you want the different stakeholders that you collaborate with, you want them to walk away with the best taste of that particular carrot cake, right? So whether it’s your suppliers, whether it’s your employees, whether it’s your shareholders, you want people to walk away that they are winning and that they have tasted the best carrot cake ever. So when it comes to diversity, it’s the different ingredients that people that the different ingredients your company has to offer. So the employees having the different skill sets that they have, but also the different backgrounds, the unique and the diverse thoughts that they have to amplify your business, then comes equity part. That’s when you level up your ingredients, so you give the people the different tools that they need so that they can be the best person or can be the best employee that they add. So let’s say in a the best, one of the best carrot cakes that I have had is a cheesecake. Carrot Cake, oh yeah, where somebody has the element of the cheesecake, or somebody has the element of maybe rum in raisins, right? Or somebody has the elements of the carrot, right? Everybody shines in within their own category because of that, because they are given particular tools for them to shine. So it’s not equity, it’s not equality, but it’s equity, giving everybody the individual to so to shine a light on myself, I’m neuro divergent, I’m dyslexic, and for me personally, if I have to read, you know, some of the scientific long texts, I need a text to speech to be able to consume the information. But also, when I read books, I accompany it with audiobooks so that I can consume the information. Can read fast, because otherwise the words will come in blurry again, and then the inclusion part is the best part, because now that you have the cake batter, you don’t have the definite cake right. And some people like cake batter. I’m not one of them, but let’s go on towards the inclusion. The inclusion is where, together with the team, you set the right temperature. So oftentimes the leaders, of course, the leaders, ignite the fire of the oven, but however, the oven is set the right temperature is set together with the people, because my definition of inclusion may differ from your definition of inclusion and may differ from somebody else within the team member. So how do we demystify that? We have a conversation about what’s needed for you to be part of this team. How can we help you? How can I, as a leader, support you to thrive in the workplace? We I don’t know where things got lost in translation, but often times when I come in, there is a relationship, a team building that needs to be done for people to disclose. What they want and how they feel included and what they need to feel psychologically safe. And if we don’t have those conversations or those dialogs with each other, then how can we collaborate effectively? How can we connect with each other on an empathetic level as well?
Maria Ross 10:16
Right? This is the one of the best definitions of dei I’ve ever heard. I love this carrot cake analogy. I can’t wait for my listeners to hear this, but I love this idea, because when we look at the individual words and what they mean, I don’t think anyone can argue that those are good things to acknowledge and to have. But what’s happened is that term dei has been politicized. It’s been branded as a as a thing that threatens, let’s be real cisgender white males in the workplace. And I love the folks that I’ve had on this show. And what I try to talk about too is that when you have an organization committed to diversity, equity, inclusion, that’s good for you, too, Mr. White male, like you get to feel you get to have equity. You get to have opportunity. It’s not at the expense of excluding you. It’s to bring everyone in under the same tent. It
Vivian Acquah 11:13
is, however, sometimes the way things are narrated, right? I don’t know what other people are saying, but I did have different conversation with white men who felt like they were being excluded, or they were being dismissed, or they were being not being able part of the inclusion. And what I try to say is we are expanding the table so that different people with insights can sit at the table and have conversations where things are going to be discussed about them, right? Why not include them? Why not talk about them? Because you don’t have my lived experience. I don’t have your lived a series. But yet again, we are here together to talk about empathy, but also talk about inclusion from different angles. Because why it’s a win win for all stakeholders. That’s how I feel, and I’m not, you know, dismissing what other people are doing at the moment, right now, when it comes to Okay, we are going to narrate everything that’s for us. I am, however, want to amplify like the way that I interpret inclusion and the way that I interpret diversity, equity and inclusion is creating space so that different people can try, because in the past, society has excluded people. Look at AI, for instance, look at the way some people are not being included. Even with the images creation, some people are
Maria Ross 12:32
not being Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for making that distinction. Yeah. Now you know, we’ve talked a lot on this show about the fact that you know, data and research show us that when you have a diverse, inclusive team or workforce, you end up making better business decisions, because you have the ability for there to be people that see things differently and may recognize risks that you can’t see or discover opportunities that you’ve overlooked. So especially
Vivian Acquah 13:04
that part say more about that. For instance, I want to highlight, for instance, Rihanna. She is an entrepreneur, or she’s known as the musical artist, but the way that Brianna has expanded her reach within the fashion industry, but also in the makeup industry, where now Rihanna is a household brand for a lot of people worldwide, the way she tapped into diversity, as in diverse body sizes, providing clothes for diverse body size and making it sexy as well. But also makeup, which brand in worldwide has all the shades. Have the majority of the shades of the world, and she was one of the few that has them.
Maria Ross 13:46
Yeah, and that’s a huge market opportunity for her. Yeah, definitely, definitely. So talk to us about, I know one of the things that caught my eye where I finally was like, I’ve got to get you on. Now, really got to get you on was you did a post around dei as risk management. Tell us about that. How is creating a culture committed to dei a form of risk management? Well,
Vivian Acquah 14:10
I wrote that post because it speaks to the language of a lot of leaders. Right? The majority of the leaders don’t want risk to creep into their business, because every time that road creeps into their business or their organization, that means that, it means that they have to invest in a lot of legal costs, or maybe have to invest in a lawsuit, or maybe pay out in the person or the plaintiff, right? And I want to address it from their angle, and see as when your company doesn’t have a fire alarm, so when your company doesn’t have dei active, then that means that the moment that a match hitches hits your company, your company is on fire without you even knowing, whilst Diversity, Equity and Inclusion done right, not a performative way, but done right, done in a way that benefits everybody within the organization. Education. You have something in place to prevent lawsuits. You have something in place to attract talent. You have something in place to become a better place, to work right? You have something in place to retain talent, to retain knowledge, and even when the knowledge, or even when the person is going to a different job within the company, it’s still a win, because now you don’t have to, you don’t have to spend a lot of time on training. You don’t have to onboard that person and to learn more about the companies and the hows and the whats and the whys that person is already a knowledge bank and is expanding that knowledge by going to a different company. But yet, what I see happening now with the companies that are working away, they are doing a lot of short term decisions that are going to impact them on the longer run. Because what I see happening now is the upcoming three and a half years or four years, it’s a business case, or what to do or what not to do,
Maria Ross 16:04
yeah, what do you believe are the financial costs of ignoring dei right now? In the longer
Vivian Acquah 16:10
run, fear stifles and for people that are working in a company that doesn’t have the an authentic dei policy or practices initiatives in place, you would see that they will not work with any pleasure. So the employee engagement will go down more sick leaves as well. But also they are not loyal to your company, or they won’t go the extra mile towards your company, right? And it’s also creates a way in for them not to stay longer within the company. At the moment, right now, a lot of people are complaining about Gen Z and all the different generations. But what about the loyalty the other way around? How are you going to show your employees the love whilst you are seeking love from your employees as well? Or you want your employees to commit love to you as well, and that is as an organization, right? Don’t get me the wrong way. This is as an organization, and oftentimes there is a discrepancy, of you show your loyalty to me because I pay you. Those days are over. This is not the time, given the fact that there are remote jobs, people can become an entrepreneur or set up their own businesses, right? And, yeah, with everything that is in place right now, with all the technology that is in place, not everybody’s dependent on working for a corporate not everybody’s on working for the same company anymore, and that means that from time to time, they will switch. And what does that mean for the longevity of your organization or your department? Yeah, because when you do that tango with, let’s say somebody leaving the your department, that means more strain on the people that are existing there. And if that person who leaves is a, let’s say a cheerleader or somebody who’s very social. It can also the energy, can that spark, can also touch other people to walk away from that as well. Right? What I see now happening is leadership going towards traditional leadership that should be extinct as the dinosaurs,
Maria Ross 18:20
100% I always talk about that are the leadership paradigm has changed, and the old paradigm is dying because we recognize that partnering with versus powering over gets you better, stronger, longer term results. Yeah, and it doesn’t mean, you know, I’ve had military leaders on this show who say there is a place for command and control, but it’s in the heat of battle. It’s not every day. What they do is they actually lean into empathy. Because you have to be able to convince, in a military setting, someone to give their life for you. Exactly. That’s the incentive. What are how are you going to incent someone to lay down their life for you. You do that through empathy. You do that through creating an environment of trust where you understand that individual and what motivates them. Yeah, it’s not the long term play is not command and control. That’s just when it’s specifically and tactically needed in the heat of the world. Crisis
Vivian Acquah 19:19
should not be a battlefield. It should never be a battlefield unless you’re, you know, you’re literally working for the military or for the Navy. That’s a different occasion. But the workplace was never meant to be a battlefield and to be run in a way that it’s the meaning, it’s dehumanizing, yeah,
Maria Ross 19:40
absolutely. Well, and also we know that the corporate structures of today were based on models from the military. That is how we created structures and hierarchies within commerce, within corporate America. So, but yeah, we’ve gotta it’s evolved. And I always say this on the show, you know, I have some empathy for the leaders who are like. Wait, I’ve been doing this for 30 and 40 years, and that’s how I got to be successful. And now all of a sudden, you’re telling me the rules are changing. Yeah, kinda so, you know, hopefully people like you, people like me, are helping support those leaders in making the transition. But it doesn’t mean the transition is going away.
Vivian Acquah 20:17
Think of it, and this is where I will step in, into my mother role, right as in a mom, our kids don’t come with manuals. Every year you they change the narrative, they change the guidelines, where you have to apply and tweak and apply your growth mindset and tweak the guidelines a little bit for what’s applicable for that particular year. My son is now a teenager, and different rules, different challenges, apply to current day. Whereas if I would use the old manuscript the way that I use it when he was a baby, that’s not gonna work. And that’s also something that I wanna say, I wanna give back to the leaders that think about, if you have a child or your uncle or aunt, or you have a child nearby, think about the way that you connect with that child at a different age, in a way that they become older. And think then also about your employees. Employees go to different phases in life, and what I’m trying to say, support them through those different phases in life, but also create that psychological safety. And that can be done when you activate your empathy muscles and also spread it, share it with other people, so that they can learn to become empathetic self leaders as well.
Maria Ross 21:31
Yeah, I always tell leaders I work with that that empathy is the fuel for helping your dei initiatives take root so that you can actually experience the benefits that we’re talking about here, the benefits on the bottom line, because otherwise, without the empathy and the understanding of being willing and able to see someone else’s point of view, you don’t harness the value of the diverse viewpoints. You just all disagree with each other, right? And you all act like I don’t understand how you know I don’t understand that person. But you mentioned something earlier that I didn’t want to lose sight of. And it’s this idea of, you know, we were talking about it earlier, and we got into sort of the military discussion, but this idea of understanding what the incentive is for your employees and understanding based on their differences, there’s going to be different motivators, there’s going to be different incentives. And I couldn’t help but remember, and I want to put this in the show notes the book, the fabulous book, drive by Daniel Pink, which is all about The Surprising Truth. I think it’s the subtitle, The Surprising Truth of what motivates us. Yeah, and it’s about understanding that unless you what motivates you might not motivate somebody else. So I think you were mentioning earlier, for some bosses, they think, well, it’s motivating enough that I’m paying you a paycheck. That’s not how everyone’s wired, not that they don’t want to get paid, but they are more motivated, in some cases, by recognition or inclusion, or more responsibilities, right, accessibility, all of these things. So it’s about being a leader who can find that particular motivator for that employee and that or that group of employees, and definitely then unlock their potential, unlock their motivation to do more for the organization.
Vivian Acquah 23:15
Yeah, while you were talking, I was also thinking about, I think it’s Beverly. I don’t know her last name anymore, but help them grow or watch them go. There is a book about that that talks about whether Are you going to connect with them, and are you going to unlock their potential or watch them go? Yeah, you stay in age in Europe, and I know in the US as well, with the fact that with everything happening with the colleges and also universities, but also there is a there are challenges with funding and with grants for the next generation. Whereas I’m wondering, how are they going to find the talent if they are not going to create space for that talent to grow, and that is going to be an interesting business case in the upcoming five to 10 years, as in, where are we going to find the talent? Because we are dismissing people when they are old. We are dismissing people when they are young. We are dismissing people when they have a different cultural background. We have dismissing people who might be neurodivergent, or have who have a who have something different, like my hair is different, or maybe a different gender identity as well. And I’m just like, aren’t these all people who are talented and can add value to your company by sharing different insights and also mitigating risk, because the fact that you are maybe not aware of how the black community is collaborating, for instance, at the moment right now, where target is suffering from what’s happening at the moment, right now. But also another example is John Deere, last year or previous years, they walked away from dei and recently their shareholders said, Well, no, no. No, no, no, because it’s good for our money. So let’s activate it this year. Right now, it says something that, wow,
25:07
788, companies
Vivian Acquah 25:08
are still activating their inclusion initiative. Maybe they are rebranding it because they don’t want to be targeted by certain people or Exactly, yeah,
25:18
but
Vivian Acquah 25:20
and long and they want inclusion, and inclusion means for all. Inclusion means everybody gets something out of it, or gets to benefit from the success of the company and for the success the individual success, right? So why are we focusing only on one out of the eight companies that are walking away because of certain pressure from outside. It’s not fair, right?
Maria Ross 25:42
Well, that’s the thing. Is, we need to shine a light on the companies like the Costcos who are like, No, we actually understand this is good for our business to operate this way. Yeah, yeah. So shining a light, okay, so kind of our last piece of our conversation that I’m so intrigued is that you have seen examples of using virtual reality to unlock empathy in people and in leaders. What the heck is going on tell us all about that?
Vivian Acquah 26:09
Well, virtual reality is a tool to expand your lenses in a different way, right? Because there are so many movies about discrimination, there are so many books and so many podcasts and so many documents about what it is to deal with discrimination or what the impact might be, but until you have walked a mile in my shoes, literally can walk on my shoes, then you will understand my impact will impact you, as well as a leader and with The virtual reality, what we do is we use realistic scenarios where we connect people with experiences that happen in the workplace so as exclusion, microaggression or good intention, bad impact, so that they can get a sense out of what’s happening. And why is it important for me as a leader, for a self leader, to understand that I am accountable, I have to play an accountability part in this, to create space where it’s psychological safe, but also understand that when when I step on somebody’s toes, I’m not the one who should be offended, but I should listen. I should activate empathy and understand that I heard them. I might also feel hurt by them, you know, telling me that I heard them, but I heard them. And create space to say sorry, or create space to be supportive. Because oftentimes we sit at the sideline just because we know Peter or we know Yan or we know Susan or we know Cinderella, we dismiss whatever it is that they have done, because we personally know that person and cannot imagine that that person can do something that can harm another human being. But then again, we are human. I can harm people. You can harm people. Everybody can harm people. And the moment that you understand that this is the impact when you lose somebody because of it needs of workplace behavior or incivility, or you lose somebody because of unconscious bias, which can be mitigated. That’s where a lot of value can be generated as well. So a lot of aha moments come close, but also it’s a way to immediately tap into people, their intrinsic motivation, whilst, if I wouldn’t use it, it would take much longer to tap into that. Are you actually using
Maria Ross 28:31
it with clients right now? Yeah, okay, and what is explain the experience to us? Is it a scenario? Are they wearing goggles? Like, how? What? Yeah. How does it work? Yeah.
Vivian Acquah 28:40
So first of all, we start with how you say it, aligning everybody with the same terminology, right? So I’ll bring in my carrot cake analogy in but I’ll also share different other aspects of what’s the risk when dei is not active, right? So I expand my presentation with the risk, and how can we mitigate that risk? Then they’ll go through a scenario. One of the scenarios we have is power and privilege, and also combined with a me too, scenario where people can put the goggles, half of the group will put on the goggles, and half of the group will be an observer, because there’s a lot happening on non verbal communication, and I want people also to be attentive to what they see, how they see their colleague respond, and what are the little things that you can respond to, even though somebody has not shared anything with you, right? Right? So they put on the goggles they go through that experience and that conspiracy, let’s say, within one experience, I’ve counted like 30 different things that are happening that are connected to exclusion, and for some people, it’s it’s confronting themselves with bias, unconscious bias, without me playing a role into that particular scenario, because they do it to themselves, right? And it’s an eye opener. It’s like, within five minutes, they see a lot, they experience a lot. But. But the magic doesn’t end there, because they went through everybody will go through the same scenario, and everybody will do a debrief and understand that. But I saw something different. No, I experienced something different. Or this connects me to my past, or this connects me to my loved one, or disconnect me to my child, who’s going through that at the moment right now, where I’m able to tap into people that intrinsic motivation and also connect it with what can we do better? Or what can you do better? Because now that you have succeeded, not have you experienced the impact. What can you do better today to make the world a little bit better tomorrow? Oh
Maria Ross 30:37
my gosh, I love this so much, because I am just imagining, you get so many people who are just like, I just never thought of it that way. I never, yeah, I heard it, and I, you know, to whatever extent I believed the person or I didn’t believe it, but oh my gosh, that’s really difficult. That’s really hard. Are you just completely moved when you are working with leaders. That experience that, I mean, that’s got to be pretty emotional for
Vivian Acquah 31:06
some people. It has mended my connection with leaders, because in the past, you know, due to what I’ve experienced in the past, let’s say that I’ve put them, I objectified them. I recently read a book about the anatomy of peace, and it talks about objectifying people as seeing them as objects instead of as people. But with this particular with this particular training, I know that leaders are human, but oftentimes they talk from a space where there is some kind of human disconnect with people, not only but sometimes there is a disconnect, and with this, I’m able to connect the team with each other and understand that the the leader also has feelings, yes, and the team members also have feeling when you connect each other, when you connect the dots and connect people, and also create an atmosphere where team building can happen. Yeah, that’s what magic can happen.
Maria Ross 32:02
I love this. I have a role play I do in one of my leadership trainings that there was this element of that that happened, that I actually didn’t design into it. It sort of happened serendipitously. One of the role plays in my trainings is delivering a difficult performance review, and I give each it’s sort of two actors and an observer, and I give each actor their backstory, but they don’t know what the other person’s backstory is like a murder mystery party, and it’s meant to be a manager and a direct report. And the manager is giving the direct report a difficult performance review. They’ve had some trouble with their performance. What I didn’t predict is that one time I did this in a cross level training group, so there were, like, VPs in the group, and then individual contributors that were, you know, in their 20s and 30s, yeah, and what happened was, when they paired up, because they’re just given, like, do you want to be a or b, the younger person actually took on the role of the manager, and the seasoned exec took on the role of the person getting the difficult performance review. And what happened was they both walked away, and this is why I always say empathy flows both ways. It’s not just the responsibility of the leader, but it’s helping your people build empathy so they understand you too, right? Yeah. And what happened was they were both so impacted by it, and even though it was just, I just gave them some parameters, and then they got creative with how they ran the role play. The the younger person said, Wow, I didn’t realize how how hard it is to give someone negative feedback, like how difficult that is emotionally, how it makes you feel, whatever. And then the seasoned executive said, I forgot what it’s like to get feedback from someone, which that’s a whole other issue if they’re not getting feedback at the upper levels, but whatever.
Vivian Acquah 33:55
But that’s a whole nother thing, because people don’t understand that the different stakeholders in this particular scenario. They all want to be connected. They all want to be loved in a way. They all want to be part of the team. Yeah, and sometimes leadership can leaders can feel lonely because of the fact that they distance themselves from the team, or they distance themselves so that they can lead, but we need to be able to connect more.
Maria Ross 34:20
Yeah, absolutely. So I love that. What a great and I also it’s also making me think of a TEDx talk I saw that really impacted me. And I’ll put a link to that in the show notes as well. It was a transgender woman who had actually been in their you know, prior to their transition, had been a male CEO of a very Christian organization, I think Paula stone and she talked about how, with great humor and insight and wit, talked about I experienced firsthand when I finally embraced who I am and I began to live my life as. Woman that I am. I experienced being shut down in a meeting. I experienced being talked over. I experienced, and she said, I actually never saw that before when I was in the world as a male leader, and so they, you know, she got to experience that herself. Yeah, you know, we don’t. I like you know, your method of doing it is a little bit less permanent, right? But being able to give people a taste of that like, no, people are not making this up. This is really what their experience is, and we need to believe them. Yeah,
Vivian Acquah 35:32
yeah. We oftentimes don’t believe them, because it never happened to us, but when, and there are so many things that we don’t know until we know, right? Because one of the things that way that I have more empathy for people who have accessibility challenges. I broke my ankle two years ago, and I’m still recovering from that, but being in a wheelchair being dismissed just because people think that I can’t talk. Mind you, it’s my ankle that is broken my mouth or my eyes or my ears, right? And the other thing is also that I never realized how much power comes from my ankle until you have to open an office door, some doors, doors, they weigh a ton, and I’m just like, here I am somewhat able bodied, but still feeling that I need to put pressure on my ankle, that it feels like I’m weight lifting just to open a door. Yeah, this should not
Maria Ross 36:32
be the case. Absolutely not. And that’s what you know. That’s what makes me so angry that you know, at least as of this recording, they’re clawing away some accessibility laws in the US. And I’m like, what people need to function. They need access to things like this is not about cutting costs. This is about giving people access so they can contribute and be part of society and be part of an organization. So I’m with you where that could be a whole other episode
Vivian Acquah 37:01
about paralyzing the system at the moment, right now. Yeah, but I do have to say, and this is my lens from from the outside looking in some government practices, let’s say that their processes are not ideal, as the way that a company does that right? So oftentimes a company needs to earn their revenue or needs to earn their money by selling their services the government, then now ahead, they always get money. They always get money. So no matter what, I’m not justifying what certain people are doing, but I do understand that we need to look into our government processes with a corporate lens into how can we save it, and how can we do that in a sustainable way without hurting and dehumanizing people? That’s why I
Maria Ross 37:55
love that. Well, we might have to have another conversation, Vivian, because this has been just delightful, and I’m so glad you shared your insights. Thank you so much for your time and your gems today that you shared, we will have all your links in the show notes. And before I get to that, I also want to quickly talk about your amplify dei cards, because you have a special offer for our listeners. So tell us what those are, and we’ll put a link in the show notes, as well as the code to redeem them for 10% off. Yes,
Vivian Acquah 38:25
I mentioned something about people not having the conversations that are necessary, right? So these amplified dei cards are conversation startups about creating your own inclusion recipe for your team, or even you can do this among friends or family, where you start ignite your own individual journey, right? So there are two card decks, and the code is empathy. So when you use the code empathy, and it’s valid till end of 2025 you get a 10% discount to activate those conversation starters within the team, because oftentimes people don’t know where to start. And I have given people the I’ve created this card that’s very simple. You’ll also see a savviness around me playing around with food, because some cards contain jalapeno, as in spicy or paprika, mouth. And I do have a phone, a as in a hot and some cards also, or the cards also contain the intensity that, or that was the intensity level, but category level, as in unaware and action. So they can be play around, used to play, but phenomenally, used to create your own dei recipe, right? Individually.
Maria Ross 39:38
I love that as maybe an action item for our folks listening is check out the cards if you want to just start somewhere with your team or your organization, or, like you said, maybe your family and your group of friends, because sometimes we just need some sort of guardrail around how to start those conversations. So I will put the link in the show notes, and as vivid mentioned, use code empathy for 10% off until the end. Of 2025, so as we wrap up, we’ll have all your other links in the show notes so people can connect with you. But for anyone on the go, where’s a good place that they can find out more about your work, the easiest will
Vivian Acquah 40:10
be LinkedIn. So when you look me up Vivian Acquah, look me up not to miss the girl with the purple and pink hair, then you’re
Maria Ross 40:19
right. And as I tell all my listeners, when folks give their LinkedIn is make sure you put a note that says that you heard her on the show so she doesn’t think you’re trying to sell her something. Vivian, thank you for the time. I really appreciate you. Likewise,
Vivian Acquah 40:32
Marie, and it was a joy for talking about this particular subject. So I’m looking forward to the future. I
Maria Ross 40:39
love it. And thank you everyone for listening to another episode of the empathy edge podcast. If you like what you heard, you know what to do. Please rate and review or share it with a friend or a colleague, and until next time, please remember that cash flow, creativity and compassion are not mutually exclusive. Take care and be kind For more on how to achieve radical success through empathy, visit the empathy edge.com there you can listen to past episodes, access show notes and free resources. Book me for a Keynote or workshop and sign up for our email list to get new episodes, insights, news and events. Please follow me on Instagram at Red slice Maria, never forget, empathy is your superpower. Use it to make your work and the world a better place.
