We’re entering a leadership era where charisma without self-awareness falls flat, expertise without empathy stalls out, and confidence isn’t a personality trait; it’s a leadership skill that can be trained.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen has built her life’s work around that reality. Nada is the Founder and CEO of Rise Up For You, a globally recognized leadership development and coaching organization dedicated to advancing confidence, emotional intelligence, transformational leadership, and influential communication.
Today, Maria and Nada discuss Nada’s personal experiences that shaped her focus on confidence and emotional intelligence, and led to her creation of Rise Up For You, including her Power Up Method. They also dive into the difference between high performers and high-potential talent, and what shifting from transactional to transformational leadership really demands. This is a grounded, practical conversation about how leaders grow influence, presence, and impact, not by adding more tactics, but by strengthening the inner skills that drive everything else.
To access the episode transcript, please scroll down below.
Listen in for…
- Why “soft skills are the new success skills”
- Nada’s Power Up Method and four core pillars that address challenges facing high-performing leaders
- Why self-confidence is the foundation of emotionally intelligent leadership
- The shift from transactional to transformational leadership
- The difference between high performers and high-potential talent, and how confusing the two can derail leadership pipelines.
“If you want to be in the top 1% or even in the top 10%, these are the skills that are going to help you stand out. I always say, be seen, be heard, and be relevant.” — Nada Lena Nasserdeen
Episode References:
- MIT Study: These Human Capabilities Complement AI Shortcomings
- The Power Up Method: powerup.riseupforyou.com
- Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs: simplypsychology.org/maslow.html
About Nada Nasserdeen: Founder and CEO of Rise Up For You
Nada Lena Nasserdeen is the Founder and CEO of Rise Up For You, a globally recognized leadership development and coaching organization dedicated to advancing confidence, emotional intelligence, transformational leadership, and influential communication. With over a decade of experience, Nada has partnered with executives, organizations, and institutions across North America, supporting leaders at every level through research-backed coaching and training programs designed for real-world impact.
Nada is a certified coach, keynote speaker, and bestselling author whose work has been featured on platforms including TEDx, Bloomberg, CBS, and Entrepreneur. She is known for her ability to translate leadership psychology, emotional intelligence, and neuroscience into practical, human-centered development experiences that drive measurable growth. Under her leadership, Rise Up For You has delivered more than 15,000 coaching sessions in the last three years and maintains a 95 percent client renewal rate, and consistently receives high performance ratings from leaders and teams.
Nada’s work emphasizes ethical coaching practice, sustainable leadership development, and the belief that soft skills are the new success skills. Through her speaking, writing, and certification programs, she continues to empower individuals and organizations to lead with clarity, presence, and purpose while creating cultures that thrive in an evolving business landscape.
Connect with Nada:
Rise Up For You: riseupforyou.com
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/nadalena
Instagram: instagram.com/nadalenanasserdeen
YouTube: youtube.com/@RiseUpForYou/videos
Connect with Maria:
Get Maria’s books: Red-Slice.com/books
Hire Maria to speak: Red-Slice.com/Speaker-Maria-Ross
Take the LinkedIn Learning Courses! Leading with Empathy and Balancing Empathy, Accountability, and Results as a Leader
LinkedIn: Maria Ross
Instagram: @redslicemaria
Facebook: Red Slice
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Maria Ross 00:04
Welcome to the Empathy Edge podcast, the show that proves why cash flow, creativity, and compassion are not mutually exclusive. I’m your host Maria Ross. I’m a speaker, author, mom, facilitator, and empathy advocate, and here you’ll meet trailblazing leaders and executives, authors and experts who embrace empathy to achieve radical success. We discuss all facets of empathy, from trends and research to the future of work to how to heal societal divisions and collaborate more effectively. Our goal is to redefine success and prove that empathy isn’t just good for society. It’s great for business. We’re entering a leadership era where charisma without self-awareness falls flat, expertise without empathy stalls out, and confidence isn’t a personality trait. It’s a leadership skill that can be trained. My guest today, Neda Lena Nasserdeen, has built her life’s work around that reality. Neda is the founder and CEO of Rise Up For You, a globally recognized leadership development and coaching organization dedicated to advancing confidence, emotional intelligence, transformational leadership, and influential communication. With more than a decade of experience, Neda has partnered with executives, organizations, and institutions across North America, delivering over 15,000 coaching sessions in just the last three years, maintaining a 95% client renewal rate, and consistently earning top performance ratings from leaders and teams. She’s a certified coach, keynote speaker, and best-selling author whose work has been featured on TEDx, Bloomberg, CBS, and Entrepreneur. What sets Neda apart is her ability to translate leadership psychology, emotional intelligence, and neuroscience into practical, human-centered development that leaders can actually apply, especially in moments that matter most. In our conversation, we explore what led Neda to create Rise Up For You and the personal experiences that shaped her focus on confidence and emotional intelligence. We talk about why soft skills are the new success skills and why they’ve become mission critical for leaders and organizations. Neda shares her Power Up method and four core pillars that address the most common challenges facing high-performing leaders like you. She discusses why self-confidence is the foundation of emotionally intelligent leadership, the shift from transactional to transformational leadership and what that transition really demands, and a crucial distinction that leaders often miss: the difference between high performers and high potential talent, and how confusing the two can derail leadership pipelines. This is a grounded, practical conversation about how leaders grow influence, presence, and impact, not by adding more tactics, but by strengthening the inner skills that drive everything else. So many gems today. Take a listen. Welcome, Nada, to the Empathy Edge podcast. I’m excited for us to have this conversation about how to optimize your team and uplevel your leadership. So welcome to the show.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 03:16
Thank you so much. It’s an honor to be here. Thanks for having me.
Maria Ross 03:19
So, you know, we heard in the bio you’ve been doing this work for a long time. You’ve done it for some pretty impressive clients. Thank you. But I’m going to start where I always start, which is just finding out your story. How did you get to this work, and what’s your biggest passion for it?
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 03:33
Yeah. So it’s that’s actually quite interesting, I think, anyway. So my first career I ever had was a performer. So I’m a former musical theater performer. I used to tour internationally. Yay! I know. So the first career I ever had was in musical theater. I used to tour internationally around the world and sing and dance. And from there, I moved into being an executive. I was an executive at 27. I had 200 team members under me.
Maria Ross 03:58
Oh, my gosh.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 03:59
And I took that path because when I was performing, I realized that what I really loved about performing was the human connection. It’s like, you know, you’re on stage, you’re building a relationship with people. Most of the time, I was in countries that didn’t speak English, so Russia, Japan. And so there was something about building connection, emotional conversation from the stage that got me into education. It was like a very natural progression for me.
Maria Ross 04:25
Mhm.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 04:25
So I came back, became an executive, and in the evening, I was a professor for a community college. And in every industry that I’ve ever been in, I started to see the exact same challenge, which was highly talented individuals, PhDs, master’s degrees—you name it—super successful technically struggle to build relationships and grow in their career. In fact, most of the time, they sabotage themselves. And I was seeing this across the board. I was seeing it on the professional level when I was an executive. Most of my team members really struggled to communicate, to lead, to manage their emotions. Many were unfulfilled and unhappy. And when I was a professor, I was seeing every year more and more the freshmen would come into college, and they would rather take an F than ask a question because they didn’t want to look dumb, right? They were afraid. They had fear in them. They were afraid that people would make fun of them. And so this became like a very glaring challenge for me. So I started to contribute in my own way. I started studying myself, got my master’s in executive leadership, started studying soft skills and what it truly means to build success as an individual and as a company because I knew it wasn’t just the technical aspect. It wasn’t working. It wasn’t working for most people. And then I went through my own my own personal journey. I was again teaching, training, executive, and I decided to resign from being a professor and an executive, and I moved out of the country for an opportunity called love. And on the first day of my honeymoon, my husband said he wanted a divorce. So within two weeks, I know I know that’s the face I get all the time.
Maria Ross 06:10
People can’t see I’m making a face with an open mouth, but yeah.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 06:13
So within two weeks, I went from a six-figure executive college professor to $100 and two luggage. That was it.
Maria Ross 06:21
Wow!
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 06:22
And I got back on a plane, and I was crying, and I was mortified, and very embarrassed and confused. And my father came to me, and he said, Nada, everything you need is already inside of you. And when I say came to me, it’s because he passed away. He passed away prior. Oh, wow! So he came to me in my dream, and he said, Everything you need is already inside of you. You just have to rise up for you. So that’s the company that you mentioned that I that I built. So I got back to California, and I just kept hearing that phrase in my head, Rise up for you, rise up for you. So I said, You know what? I’m just going to start building it. I don’t know anything about entrepreneurship. I knew nothing about business. It was not I didn’t even know what a podcast was. I’m like, What is a pod What’s a podcast? I never listened to one.
Maria Ross 07:03
Yeah.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 07:04
So I just started building this thing called Rise Up for You, and I reflected back on, you know, what am I good at? What do I love? And what is the big challenge? And I always knew that I was good at speaking because I was a performer. Like it was natural
Maria Ross 07:21
for me.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 07:22
And I knew that I had a deep passion, which made me good in teaching. Like I love to pass on knowledge, and I also love to be a student. But the biggest challenge were these soft skills. And so I started building this company around that. Three months later, my second parent was diagnosed with stage four cancer. I built the company out of a hospital. By the time I was 31, I buried both of my parents, going through divorce, lost all my money, and I was buying my groceries at the 99 Cents store, $25 budget a month.
Maria Ross 07:53
Wow!
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 07:54
But I had the company Rise Up for You in my mind to build. Like it was my motivation to keep going. Now the reason why I share that story is because the skills that my team and I teach today are the very same skills that I have used in myself to take a company from in the negatives to a seven-figure business today that’s global, that’s in over 50 countries, not because I had the technical skill in business, but because I had the soft skills to help build the relationships, have the self-confidence, the emotional intelligence to manage myself, to take action and move forward.
Maria Ross 08:32
Mm. So much in there. Wow, what a story! And what a success story to show that like these skills are the crux of what makes people successful. It’s not that you, you know, you’re going to go through and have no business acumen and no technical experience, but that’s often the missing piece for so many businesses, for so many leaders who on paper should it should work.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 08:56
Yeah.
Maria Ross 08:56
And it just falls apart when it comes to the human element. Absolutely. And I keep saying this message over and over, especially this, you know, in the times that we’re in, is that AI is going to transform AI is transforming our workplace and our cultures, but that just means that leaders without these skills will have nowhere to hide.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 09:16
Absolutely. Because
Maria Ross 09:17
the tasks that they are hiding behind are being taken away from them. And so what are they left with? They’re left with motivation, they’re left with engagement, they’re left with collaboration, they’re left with empathy, they’re left with all these things. Yeah. And so, you know, that you kind of can’t avoid it anymore. And what’s wonderful is that these skills at work benefit us in our real personal lives, Yeah. with our relationships, with our communities, with our families. So, of course, yes, I’m like eating up everything you’re saying. So, I want to talk a little bit about that, and talk to me about your perspective of why these skills are more important now than ever before, and what you’re seeing with your clients in terms of the transformation of, A, acknowledging that, and B, working on it.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 10:03
Yeah, well, I would say that COVID was really, I think, an eye-opener for a lot of people. Mm-hmm. Like a lot has happened in the last 10 years that I believe have catapulted the idea of soft skills onto the next level. Now, don’t get me wrong. We got a long way to go. There are still leaders that I talk to that ask me, What is emotional intelligence? In fact, I just did a keynote two weeks ago for 400 school administrators, and when I asked how many knew the four pillars of emotional intelligence, not one hand went up.
Maria Ross 10:37
Wow!
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 10:38
So, which for me is great. I’m like, all right, like we got a lot to do. Like
Maria Ross 10:42
Right.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 10:43
That’s awesome!
Maria Ross 10:44
But also as a parent, that’s terrifying.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 10:48
For sure. Absolutely! As a business owner, I’m excited. As a parent, I’m like, holy yes, 100%. But I think that COVID really helped people recognize that it didn’t really matter what your role was, what your technical aspect was, that when things become stressful, because that’s the key with emotional intelligence, when you are in a heated moment or a stressful moment or a challenging moment as a leader, how do we respond? That That’s the greatest test of our success. And I think many companies and leaders identified that most people were not equipped with the skills. And so when COVID happened and shutdowns were happening and people were losing their jobs, there were a lot of companies and individuals that were struggling, deeply struggling. They were losing business, companies were about to shut down, people wanted to take their life, unfortunately. They Nobody ever learned these emotional and social intelligence skills. Now, that is obviously a very extreme case and situation. But now you forward it to today where artificial intelligence is coming into play, and we got to remember that there’s very We always say that like, success is yours, so we can all be successful, but very few people actually reach that level of success on a holistic level.
Maria Ross 12:07
Mm-hmm.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 12:07
And And that’s because these emotional intelligence or these soft skills are never really taken into consideration. And so, I always say that if you want to be in the top 1% or even in the top 10%, these are the skills that are going to help you stand out. I always say, be seen, be heard, and be relevant. So that brings me back to AI. You know, AI is going to come, it’s already here, it’s taking over many jobs. Even with myself, there’s things that I’ve said, well, now we can have ChatGPT do this. I can build a whole automation funnel and marketing materials and everything through resourcing ChatGPT, which then means I don’t need to hire somebody that does that, right? So why would I hire somebody that is in marketing? Why would I hire? And that’s where the soft skills comes in. Is the individual that is able to be a critical thinker, that’s able to be creative, that’s able to bring ideas to the table that are going to scale the business, that can build relationships, is all the things that AI aren’t necessarily going to do that we still need in this human world.
Maria Ross 13:10
For sure, and I’ve mentioned this before on the show, I’m pulling it up right now, there’s that MIT study that was done last year about the human capabilities that complement AI, that AI currently lacks, and in that list is empathy, emotional intelligence, you know, things like ethics, and it’s called the EPOCH model, E P O C H, and I’ll put a link in the show notes to the article for folks. I know they’re probably sick of hearing me talk about it, but it’s basically that the humans can still do things AI cannot. And actually, that’s where our largest competitive advantage and strategic advantage to stay relevant is going to lie. So I love what you’re saying, and yeah, it’s really interesting to me because the pandemic came along, and I’ve told this story before. You know, when I was I was shopping around my first book on empathy, there were a lot of agents and publishers who loved it, but didn’t get it, and they didn’t understand if it was a business book or a self-help book. And then the pandemic hit, and my book took off, because people started to understand that we we bring our whole selves to work in that we don’t park our humanity at the office door when we come to work. So what’s going on economically, what’s going on culturally for somebody is yeah, it’s going to affect their ability to do a spreadsheet accurately.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 14:30
100% We’re not we’re not robots, and I always say that the person is the professional, and the professional is the person, and they always work in tandem. I mean, how many of us have had a coworker or somebody that is going through a divorce, they’re struggling financially, their child is sick, you can’t tell me that they came to school and they had optimal performance, or they came to work and they had optimal performance.
Maria Ross 14:51
Right.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 14:52
If they struggled with self-managing and stress and those, they brought that into the workplace.
Maria Ross 14:57
Right.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 14:57
And so I think that that’s a very, you know, hundred-year-old mindset of like I’m going to work, I’m going to make my paycheck and do my thing, but today we just don’t function that way. We have we have more humanity, we want more purpose, more fulfillment, and all of those are very humanistic qualities.
Maria Ross 15:13
Yeah, absolutely. And the pandemic just accelerated that because that trend was already happening, and as we see with Gen Z and with younger millennials, they were driving that change already, and, you know, good on them. They’re being brave enough to say, Yeah, if I’m going to spend 8, 10, 12 hours a day working and producing for you, I want to be respected. I want to be seen, heard, and valued. I want it to be a place where I can collaborate, and feel good, and find joy, even when the work is hard.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 15:42
Yeah, 100%.
Maria Ross 15:43
So I love what you’re saying. So you guys follow a power up method. It’s four pillars to optimize the workplace, and I know that’s been the topic of your books, which we’ll put links to all your books in the show notes as well, but tell us about those pillars, and why they’re so important. And then, if you can, you know, as we talk, give us some examples of them in action.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 16:03
Yeah, so I created the Rise Power Up Method because of all the experiences and the clientele that we work with, there was really like four common challenges that kept coming up. Okay. And so I recognize that these are there’s a lot of soft skills, as you know, there’s tons, recognize that there’s four major ones that actually move the needle forward, okay, when you learn them the right way, and that are the most critical to optimizing your workforce, whether you’re in sales, whether you’re in leadership, it doesn’t matter. And so the first pillar is self-confidence. Most of the clients that we work with, and in fact, every year we do an assessment and we ask anywhere between 4 to 6,000 individuals what their number one challenge is, 83% say self-confidence. So,
Maria Ross 16:51
That’s startling.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 16:52
It’s startling, and we recognize in our coaching and in our training that when we break down the coaching and when we train, that a lot of the behaviors are based off of beliefs, right? And a lot of those beliefs are based off of a lack of self-confidence, not feeling enough, perfectionist mindset, imposter syndrome. And so I always say, like, you can’t give what you don’t have. And so how do we become a transformative leader? How do we really create impact and influence in the world when our mind is telling us that we’re not worthy and that we’re not good enough? Right. So, I mean, how many of us, you know, if you’re listening because I’ve experienced this, you have a team member that you give feedback to, okay? And all of a sudden the team member starts crying. They think they’re going to get fired. They get defensive. They can’t take the feedback. It’s because in their mind, they are struggling with feeling enough and self-confidence, and their identity is attached to that job. And so, when you give feedback about the job or the task or the email, their brain automatically says like, I’m not good enough. I’m not worthy. And so, and then the opposite, you have a team member that is self-confident, that you give them feedback and they’re like, Got it. What do How do I need to fix it? Can you give me more clarity? I’m on it. I’m going to start actively working on it. Something and their growth mindset shines and comes through.
Maria Ross 18:14
Right.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 18:14
So, self-confidence is the number one pillar. It’s the most important. I could talk about it for hours. It’s the first the first book I wrote, and I think any great leader has to start there.
Maria Ross 18:26
Right. And we’re, you know, a few things there. We also are talking about a difference between self-confidence and arrogance, because arrogance is actually just hiding a lack of self-confidence in many cases. And so, you know, when we talk about self-awareness, self-care, the first two pillars in the empathy framework, that’s really about knowing that you have that gap, and being able to take care of yourself so that you can take on other perspectives, you can take on feedback without defensiveness or fear. Because to your point, if you are coming from an insecure place, then everything you hear is going to feel like a personal attack.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 19:02
That’s right.
Maria Ross 19:03
And then, where are you? You just don’t have the capacity to actually look at it in a productive way, or be collaborative in the exchange, because you feel like you’re being attacked. So, sort of, I always say we have to get our own house in order before we can be a leader, and we can be there for our teams, and be able to withstand all the change, all the emotional issues that we have, all the conflict, all the hard conversations. So, I love that that’s your first pillar of that framework. What’s your second one?
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 19:32
Yeah, and let me just back up for a second. I appreciate you talking about the arrogance or the overconfidence, because I always say that doesn’t exist, because true self-confidence is not overcompensation. In fact,
Maria Ross 19:46
Right.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 19:47
true self-confidence is a growth mindset. It’s progress over perfection. It’s being able to fail and say, You know what, I’m just going to keep going. Right. And it’s very self-aware, so it’s not somebody that’s like I got this even and their self-awareness is so far gone.
Maria Ross 20:04
Yeah.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 20:05
That’s not what self-confidence is. In fact, the true definition states all of that. So that leads me to my second pillar, which is emotional intelligence. Self-confidence is actually under emotional intelligence, under the self-awareness category. It’s the third competency.
Maria Ross 20:20
Mhm.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 20:20
And the thing that I love about emotional intelligence that I geek out on is that most people have no idea what it is. Truly. Yeah. They think it’s just like touchy-feely, you’re in your feelings, and they think it’s just it’s just being self-aware. But there’s actually 18 competencies that fall under emotional intelligence, and those 18 competencies pretty much solve almost every challenge in the workforce today. Everything from accountability, strategic thinking, diversity, equity, and inclusion, cultural tolerance, empathy, active listening, coaching, modeling, team conflict, they all fall under emotional intelligence. And so when companies come to me and they say, Well, we don’t need emotional intelligence. We just we need to teach our leader we need to teach our leaders how to coach. I’m like, Well, let me pull up the emotional intelligence chart for you. Yeah. Yeah. Because that’s where you have to start. And again, you can’t give what you don’t have. So the brilliant thing about emotional intelligence is that it breaks it down into four quadrants. The first two have to do with you, Yes. and the second two then have to do with how you’re showing up with others and how you’re able to modify and adapt yourself in a way that’s win-win according to the person and the room that you’re in front of. Mhm. And that’s the brilliance of emotional intelligence is knowing, hey, I’m in a room right now full of passive players, we’re not able to make a decision, I’m going to assert a little bit more because that’s what’s needed in the moment. Or, this is a true story for me, I’m in a room full of all male executives that are brilliant and they’re all super aggressive and going at it and nothing’s getting done, so I take a step back and when it’s ready, I say something very gently and the whole room goes quiet and we finally make a decision. So it’s knowing how to shift your energy, right, and your behavior in a way that’s win-win for both parties.
Maria Ross 22:15
Well, and I think that, you know, I’ve written a lot about this in terms of empathy and emotional intelligence writ large being so important to navigating the tumultuous times of change we’re in right now. And you’ve just articulated why. That ability to adapt, that ability to be resilient, that ability to read the room. I’m always telling my 11-year-old, Dude, read the room, right? That joke’s funny, but not to your teacher.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 22:37
Yes.
Maria Ross 22:38
But that ability to get out of your own head, and again, to your point, if you’re insecure, you’re too stuck in your own head. But if you’re grounded and you’re able to kind of see what’s going on from an objective point of view and respond to it, and you might have to respond in a non-scripted way, and that’s where the flexibility and the adaptability come in. That’s what’s required for us to survive and thrive in these times of change. So the link between change management and emotional intelligence is so strong, and I think a lot of people misjudge how strong it is. They think they, Oh, we need to we need to figure out how to navigate this change, but we’re going to keep our old patterns and our old leadership paradigm in order to do it. Like, mh, that’s not really going to work for you.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 23:24
Well, I just had a conversation this morning with a prospect, and they were saying, Well, we don’t really like we don’t want to learn about emotional intelligence. We want to just be able to be in a room and have crucial, conscious conversations.
Maria Ross 23:37
Without emotional intelligence, yeah.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 23:40
And I said I said, I hear you. I total I absolutely get what you want the outcome to be. And we can’t just jump to crucial conversations. They need to have the conceptual, the understanding what emotional intelligence is. They need to learn self-awareness so that when they do communicate in a crucial conversation, it doesn’t blow up and go sideways.
Maria Ross 23:59
Right.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 23:59
So, you know, people always want to like jump through the actual work that’s needed and get to the outcome, but EQ is the it’s the foundation. It’s the most popular program we have.
Maria Ross 24:10
Yeah, they want a shortcut, right? And they want, like to your point that you made earlier, you know, we’re not talking about being overly touchy-feely. We’re talking about, you know, being able to access emotional intelligence and empathy from wherever you are, whether you are analytical and data-driven, whether you are emotional and emotive and touchy-feely, whether you’re neurodiverse, right, or neurodivergent, and how can you access it whether whether you use your head or your heart, you still can get to a point where you’re trying to understand someone else’s experience, someone else’s point of view, and like I said, be able to read the room. And so that’s the thing. I’m sure you get this, too. I get kind of like sighs of relief from leaders that I work with when they’re like, Oh, I don’t You know, I’m like, You don’t have to be crying on the floor with your employees. That’s not empathy. That’s not even emotional intelligence It might be, if that’s how it manifests for the two people in the interaction, but it doesn’t have to be. And so they they sort of are like, Oh, I always thought that’s what it was, and that’s what was holding me back from being emotive, from being, you know, willing to listen, from being like making the time if my employee’s having a rough time. I just didn’t want to go there because I thought it was going to lead to something that I was uncomfortable with.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 25:24
Yeah. Yeah. So,
Maria Ross 25:25
I love that so much. Okay, so pillar three.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 25:30
Pillar number three and four are the most difficult. The third one is transformative leadership versus transactional. And the reason why we labeled it transformative is because we see so many leaders, especially, you know, our clients, people that we’re coaching and we’re working with when I was an executive, that function we always use Maslow’s hierarchy as a bench. They function at the bottom of the pyramid, meaning that so many leaders are helping their team on a very basic level. Do you feel supported? Do you have what you need? Is there psychological safety where you can show up and do your work? I have an open door policy. Let me know if you need anything. Right? It’s It’s a very passive, hands-off approach until you need something and then it’s like management, we got to get this done. Yeah. And so what we really want to do is be a transformative leader where we look at our team as infinite potential, and we help them get to the top of the pyramid, which is self-actualization. So, how do I take my team member beyond just their job role, but coach them, mentor, guide them to a place where they start to see shifts in themselves and they start to push their potential. Now, the hardest part about this pillar is that leaders always want to be selective. Right? They’re like, Well, I could do that with these team members, but I don’t know if I want to like invest my time in these other ones. And then I always say, actually I just had this conversation the other day with a client, and then I said, Well, then why do you have them there? You like if you’re not interested in investing in them because you think that they’re stagnant or that they’re just not worth it, why do you have them on payroll to pay why are you paying them? Why are they on payroll? Right. And how do you
Maria Ross 27:11
think they’re going to innovate for your organization?
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 27:14
Exactly. Cause I always, and I say this now I’m thinking from a very business-minded perspective, people are either a liability or they’re an asset.
Maria Ross 27:23
Okay?
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 27:24
And when you tell me that you are not interested in growing anybody, but you keep them on payroll, that’s a liability to me because they’re no longer growing and nurturing themselves, their leadership, the company, the environment. And that’s always how I think of it, but in a positive way. Yeah. And so transformational leadership is that third pillar. That one’s more strategic. So how do you coach? How do you mentor? How do you build that next level of succession planning and bench? And the thing that’s really important for me to teach is how do you identify high performance versus high potential, cause they’re very, very different.
Maria Ross 28:00
Ooh, dig into that. What is the difference?
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 28:02
So high performance is typically what we see in a company where I’m going to promote the sales team member because they perform well. They bring in the top sales. They are they’re bringing in the revenue. They are a high performer. But then you put them in a leadership role, and they’re not interested in growing. They’re not interested in They’re not interested in teaching their team. They have no desire to coach and mentor. And then people end up turning over because you put somebody in a leadership role that has no idea how to lead, nor do they care. Right. And so a high potential is somebody that can perform, but is also hungry to grow as a person. They’re hungry to pass on their knowledge to other people. They’re collaborative. They want to grow themselves, the team, the organization, and that’s what we need to find.
Maria Ross 28:49
I love that because so many people have gotten promoted because they’re good at the doing, and they’re not good at managing people. Right, they’re performers. And so I love that idea because I’ve actually, you know, in my throughout my career, I’ve seen people who might not be great at the actual work, but when they’re put in a leadership position, they’re able to create a team of catalysts. And it’s because of these quote-unquote soft skills, which I always hate calling them soft skills because they actually impact the bottom line.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 29:16
Yeah.
Maria Ross 29:17
But it’s that idea of that’s not a checkbox for someone being a good leader is them being able to do all the tasks. Again, AI is coming, right? Yeah. Just because they can do all the tasks, you know what? AI’s going to be able to do that for us. Exactly. So how do we get those people that maybe they’re not, you know, maybe they’re B players. Maybe they’re B-plus, right? But they are amazing at motivating and managing and mentoring people, and they’re going to exponentially benefit your organization. Because if you’ve got them at that level, they’re going to be able to take any team and create a high-performing team. And this is the thing I was just discussing on another episode with someone about the importance of coaching. And coaching, we were talking about college sports, actually, and how the Indiana University Hoosiers, which by the time this airs, as of this date, it’s just happened, but by the time this airs, we’ll know if they became national champions or not. But they had a huge turnaround in their organization in just two years with mostly the same players. Yeah. They were like the second most losingest college football team in the NCAA or something like that. It’s cause the coach came in with a completely different approach and mindset, and he took mostly the same group of players and turned them around. And that’s what we need in our organizations because I’m sure you hear it too, like, it’s not me, it’s my team.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 30:41
Oh, yeah.
Maria Ross 30:42
Right?
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 30:43
It’s not me, my team. I don’t have time to teach my team. I don’t I don’t have time. I have my own job. And again, that’s not a high potential, that’s a high performer. It’s like, I want to do my thing. I want to perform. I want to make my sales. I want to, you know, make sure that I get my bonus or whatever it is, and it’s not a collaborative or potential-driven approach, and that’s the difference.
Maria Ross 31:02
Mm-hmm.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 31:03
And then the final pillar, which is by far the most difficult, is influential communication.
Maria Ross 31:08
Ooh.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 31:09
So how do I influence and communicate in a way where the person, the persons, the stakeholder, the client, the team member is going to be moved to take action? So my communication is so inspiring, it’s empowering, it’s exciting that whether it’s a team member or a high-paying client that you’re trying to sign, they want to say yes to you.
Maria Ross 31:33
Mm-hmm.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 31:33
And the biggest challenge that we see with this, to tell you the truth, is amongst the executive team. The biggest gap we see in companies throughout the North America is that the executive C-suite team does not know how to influence the owner or the CEO of the company. And so influential communication is a big gap there. So they don’t know how to drive vision, they don’t know how to shift the CEO in a way where they’re going to get buy-in, they don’t know how to create influence, and oftentimes they communicate in circles, which creates more frustration with the CEO.
Maria Ross 32:07
Right.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 32:08
Right, there’s a lot of fluff and it’s not clear and a lot of filler words like like, you know, and they talk in circles. Well, back
Maria Ross 32:16
to your self-confidence point, right? And so I I’m curious to hear what you get back from people who are like, I’m just not someone who can spin, or I’m not an extrovert, or how do you help those kinds of people become influential communicators? What kind of strategies or mindsets do you use with them to get them to shift their thinking?
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 32:37
Yeah, there’s a lot of different strategies. There’s mindset strategies and then there’s actual like tangible strategies around cut this word, use this phrase, right? So there’s different nuances. But the reality is is that the first thing that we have to do is shift the mindset of putting yourself in a box. So when somebody, for example, tells me, I’m an extrovert, I say, Well, you’re also an introvert. We’re all the things. We’re all all the things. And this is what I love about emotional intelligence, going back to that second pillar, is that that’s what emotional intelligence does. It tells you, I’m naturally an extrovert, but right now I should play as an introvert because the room needs it. Yes. Or I’m naturally an introvert, but I’m going into this high-stake job interview and I want to get the job, so now is not the time for me to be an introvert. I need to step into my power and be a little bit more extroverted. And so one of the first things that we do is we just have to break that mindset of that you have all of it. You’re colorful in every aspect, and you have dominant traits, of course, but you can also learn how to pull out the other side of things that’s going to serve you, right? And then where where do I use what color? So So yes. I’m
Maria Ross 33:47
Just real quick, I’m glad you said that, because I think, you know, people get a mixed message in their own minds that, But I’m being told I need to be authentic. Now you’re telling me I need to build this other skill. But what you’re saying is we’ve got it all there. Just sometimes we need to pull at different things and understand what the moment requires.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 34:05
Yes. Yeah, we we all have all of it, but we’ve just trained ourselves, or maybe we use it in different moments. Like I know people that are very introverted in public, but in their house they’re not. They have the extroverted skill. I can see it, but something along the way has made them play more introverted in a public environment. And so it is authentic to you. It is your natural characteristic, but you’ve just trained yourself to use it in certain situations, and now we’re doing a little bit of the untraining so that it can serve you versus sabotaging you.
Maria Ross 34:38
Well, and also this idea that, you know, every kind of personality trait or style, whatever, has its benefits as well. It’s got They’ve got shadow sides, but they got their benefits. Like research that has shown that actually some of the most successful salespeople are introverts because they can listen well. Yeah. Right? So, you know, this We make a lot of assumptions. Yes. And I think this is based, kind of going macro view, both our work, it’s based on these outdated leadership paradigms that says a leader needs to look like this. They need to be command and control, they need to be strong, they need to be outspoken, they need to be extroverted, they need to be tough. Like, who said that? Like those are all constructs we created as human beings, and we can unlearn them. We can uncouple them because now we know better. Now we know the data and research shows us to your point, you know, all the results and the success you get when you marry emotional intelligence with business acumen.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 35:35
100%.
Maria Ross 35:36
Yeah,
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 35:37
and that is again, that’s the beautiful of learn beautifying of learning these skills. I highly recommend, so we have an assessment, it’s totally complementary, it’s called the Power Up Assessment, and you can take this assessment either as an individual or as an organization, and it assesses you on the four pillars we just talked about: so self-confidence, emotional intelligence, transformational leadership, and influential communication. And at the end, it’ll whip out a report within 30 seconds, complementary, and it’ll tell you like, you’re really strong in self-confidence, influential communication we need to work on, and then it provides, I want to say, anywhere between like 30 to 35 resources, totally free, on every single category. Wow. So I recommend if these four pillars get you excited and you’re curious, take that assessment, again, it’s complementary, and it’ll let you know where you stand today.
Maria Ross 36:25
I love it. I’m going to add that to my bag of tricks, because when I do my talks in the self-awareness pillar, I offer people some assessment tools.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 36:33
Yeah.
Maria Ross 36:33
And so I am going to add this to the bag of tricks for people. I love it. So, yeah, we’ll put the link to that in the show notes. It’s called the Power Up Assessment if you’re interested. For anyone just listening right now, I’m just going to give you the URL for that. It’s powerup.riseupforyou.com. So, that’s the URL. But again, it’ll be in the show notes. And I’ll also put some links to the MIT article I mentioned earlier and also Maslow’s hierarchy for people that need a refresher on on that whole hierarchy of needs. But kind of as we wrap up, what is one gem or nugget you can share with leaders who are a little a little hesitant to dive into building more emotional intelligence, who have some of these preconceived notions about what that means in the workplace? What’s What are your words of wisdom for those leaders or professionals?
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 37:24
way that I say it to leaders and executives that are a little bit more hesitant, and I sum it up in a way where I think it would land with them, is I say that emotional intelligence teaches you how to be expressive and empathetic without being overly emotional. And the reason why I say it that way is because, again, sometimes when we think about emotional intelligence, we think that it’s like emotional and like you said, crying on the floor. But what it really what it really teaches you to do is to be expressive in a way that is professional, that’s personable, that drives the needle forward, that moves things forward, but in a very like grounded way that can land for really anybody that’s sitting across from you.
Maria Ross 38:06
Right. I mean, if you break it up, it’s being intelligent about your emotions.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 38:11
That’s right.
Maria Ross 38:11
So it’s not it’s not something where it’s like you will be overly emotional, which is I think the the vision that people have in their heads.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 38:19
Yes.
Maria Ross 38:19
Netta, this was so good. Thank you so much for all this. Like I said, we’ll have all your links in the show notes and links to all your amazing books and to that assessment that you mentioned. But for anyone that’s on the go, that’s exercising right now as they’re listening to us and taking care of themselves and their capacity, where’s one of the best places they can find out more about your work?
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 38:38
Thank you. So the company is Rise Up for You. Every social media platform, our website, it’s simply that, it’s riseupforyou.com, @riseupforyou. Our YouTube is Rise Up for You. So feel free to check us out on LinkedIn is where we play the most, YouTube, our website. And then feel free to connect with me, Netalina Nasserdeen. I do my own social media, so even if you send me a message on LinkedIn, I’ll be there. I’ll respond. It’s it’s not a bot. Not yet. There’s no AI there yet. Not
Maria Ross 39:05
yet. And I’m going to do my PSA I do for all my guests that invite people to connect on LinkedIn. Send a note that says you heard her on this podcast so that she knows you’re not trying to sell her something.
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 39:16
Thank you. Yeah.
Maria Ross 39:17
But this has been delightful. I feel like we could talk for so much longer
Nada Lena Nasserdeen 39:21
I agree
Maria Ross 39:21
I think we’ll continue to collaborate and continue to talk. But thank you so much for your time today and your insights. Thank you. And thank you, everyone, for listening to another episode of The Empathy Edge Podcast. If you like what you heard, you know what to do. Please rate, review, and share it with a friend or a colleague. And until next time, please remember that cash flow, creativity, and compassion are not mutually exclusive. Take care and be kind. For more on how to achieve radical success through empathy, visit theempathyedge.com. There, you can listen to past episodes, access show notes and free resources, book me for a keynote or workshop, and sign up for our email list to get new episodes, insights, news, and events. Please follow me on Instagram @redslicemaria. Never forget, empathy is your superpower. Use it to make your work and the world a better place.
