If you’re not in tech, you may not be familiar with Customer Success (CS) within your organization and how essential it is to the company’s long-term success. Even if you do know what it is, perhaps your company isn’t fully leveraging what it can do to catapult growth and revenue. Turns out, empathy is a key skill for CS managers, in addition to other traits my guest today will share. Emilia D’Anzica is the founder of Growth Molecules, an emerging management consulting firm that helps companies simplify customer success and become more profitable.
Emilia speaks about her passion for SaaS products, women in tech, and customer success. Today we discuss how customer success is different from customer service, where the field is going, the traits that make a CS manager successful, and how to avoid common mistakes when building out your CS function that could do more harm than good. We also chat about working moms in the tech industry and her recent book, Pressing ON as a Tech Mom: How Tech Industry Mothers Set Goals, Define Boundaries & Raise the Bar for Success.
To access this episode transcript, please scroll down below.
Key Takeaways:
- Customer support is reactive. Customer success is proactive to retain customers and help them to thrive and stick around due to the great care they are receiving.
- Language shifts are really important when you’re starting a customer success organization, ensuring that you’re really thinking about how you speak about the people that you’re going to bring in and the people you’re serving.
- You have to put yourself in your customer’s shoes. Not everyone’s like you and they’re looking at the challenge in a different way.
“You need to be able to influence the rest of the organization so that they’re able to see the customer journey as critical to the company’s success.” — Emilia D’Ánzica
About Emilia D’Anzica, Founder Growth Molecules:
Starting her career in Silicon Valley, Emilia D’Anzica has developed a passion for SaaS products, women in tech, and customer success. She has cultivated rich experience and knowledge after leading teams at global companies including Jobvite, WalkMe, and BrightEdge.
Emilia has also obtained an MBA from Saint Mary’s College of California with a focus on Global Competition and Strategy. She then founded Growth Molecules, an emerging management consulting firm, helping companies simplify customer success and become more profitable. She is globally recognized as a top 25 leader in Customer Success, having received numerous accolades for her work, and is well-known as a customer success speaker. Emilia has also been featured in countless media including Forbes.com, been a speaker at SaaStr Annual Conference, Unleash 19, RD summit, among more.
Originally from Naples, Italy, Emilia is an immigrant and one of six children who grew up in Kelowna, British Columbia. She has lived and worked in Copenhagen, Denmark, and Rome, Italy early in her career. When she isn’t working or traveling the world, Emilia spends time with her partner, three children, and multiple animals exploring Sonoma County, where she now resides. Pressing ON as a Tech Mom: How Tech Industry Mothers Set Goals, Define Boundaries & Raise the Bar for Success is Emilia’s first book.
Connect with Emilia D’Anzica:
Her company: Growth Molecules: https://growthmolecules.com/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/emiliadanzica
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emiliadanzica/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/growthmolecules
Customer Success Academy for Customer Success Managers and Leaders – 16 courses and workshops.
Don’t forget to download your free guide! Discover The 5 Business Benefits of Empathy: http://red-slice.com/business-benefits-empathy
Connect with Maria:
Get the podcast and book: TheEmpathyEdge.com
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Take my LinkedIn Learning Course! Leading with Empathy
LinkedIn: Maria Ross
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FULL TRANSCRIPT BELOW:
Welcome to the empathy edge podcast the show that proves why cash flow, creativity and compassion are not mutually exclusive. I’m your host Maria Ross. I’m a speaker, author, mom, facilitator and empathy advocate. And here you’ll meet trailblazing leaders and executives, authors and experts who embrace empathy to achieve radical success. We discuss all facets of empathy from trends and research to the future of work to how to heal societal divisions and collaborate more effectively. Our goal is to redefine success and prove that empathy isn’t just good for society, it’s great for business.
If you’re not in tech, you may not be familiar with customer success or see us within your organization, and how essential it is to the company’s long term success. Even if you do know what it is, perhaps your company isn’t fully leveraging what it can do to catapult growth and revenue. Turns out empathy is a key skill for CES managers. In addition to other traits, my guest today will share. Amelia Danika, is founder of growth molecules, an emerging management consulting firm that helps companies simplify customer success and become more profitable. She’s a globally recognized top 25 leader in customer success, and is a well known Customer Success speaker who you may have seen in forbes.com, or speaking at sastras annual conference. She’s cultivated rich experience and knowledge after leading teams at global companies including job bite, walk me and bright edge. Amelia speaks and teaches about her passion for SAS products, women in tech and customer success. Today we discuss how customer success is different from customer service, where the field is going. The traits that make a CS manager successful, and how to avoid common mistakes when building out your CS function that could do more harm than good. We also chat about working moms in the tech industry. And her recent book pressing on as a tech Mom, how tech industry mothers set goals, define boundaries and raise the bar for success. It’s a great one, stay tuned.
01:48
Welcome, Amelia. Finally, we are talking on the empathy edge Podcast. I’m so excited to have you here.
01:54
Maria, thank you for having me. Well, I
Maria Ross 01:57
want to kick things off here and talk about your work with growth molecules and the work that you do with clients. But let’s take a step back, because I think a lot of people, especially outside of tech don’t know what the customer success function is. So can you talk a little bit about what customer success is how it’s different from customer service? And what role it plays in the organization?
Emilia Danzika 02:22
Yes, well, our company is on a mission to make sure the whole world knows what customer success is because I believe that it is more than just a jargon that technologists use, but rather, it is a function within an organization that helps protect proactively and grow revenue. All too often customer success is clumped into service, or reactive support mode. And while support is incredibly important to organizations, that is more of a reactive role. Whereas customer success is very much about how do I ensure my client, once they decide to partner with my organization is going to reap the benefits or the return on the investment quickly so that they continuously become our customer. And the best example I can give you is Amazon, they are a customer success company and that the first $25 You spend with them to get that free shipping is not what Apple cares about. But what they care about is that experience being so amazing that you end up spending 1000s and 1000s of dollars with them and becoming a loyal customer. And that’s really the power of customer success, ensuring adoption and realizing value quickly so that they become a lifelong customer.
03:49
I love that. And my experience with customer success organizations and professionals has always been around someone who really helps you make the most of your investment, so that you are like literally so you are successful with their product or with their service. And whether that’s helping you increase adoption, or, you know, customize things or figure out what additional tools or services you might need. I always felt like customer success was like the salesperson without the pushiness. They were the person you could go to when you needed a partner and when you need help and when you really want to make the most of your investment.
04:30
I would agree with that. I do see a lot of trends moving Customer Success professionals into more of a sales role. And what I mean by that is there is a shift in how customer success managers are being paid. Traditionally, there was no commission or 20% was a traditional percentage of commission. But now I see more and more that 30 or 40% commission split so that customer success professionals aren’t Send devised to identify opportunities to grow that customer, and not just check the box. So customer success is sales in that you’re ensuring they continue to
05:12
buy. Exactly. That’s what I feel like. It’s like making sure you’ve got, you’ve got everything you need as you use that product or service so that you continue to either renew your subscription, or buy more products, or just, you know, become further loyal to the organization. And would you say this is a relatively new field? Is this something in the last few decades? Like, where did it come from? Because we’re used to the paradigm of just there being a customer service organization and accompany Where did customer success come from?
05:44
From my research, it dates back to the late 90s, a woman heading up what was to become customer success at vanta, which was later acquired by Oracle started this organization because it was a subscription revenue model. So Software as a Service, someone committing to paying monthly or yearly for a product, versus purchasing something on premise that you own for a lifetime, and getting continuous updates through that product. And so she created this, this organization called Customer Success, and when Oracle went on to acquire them, while PeopleSoft then Oracle, they they really, really took on that phrase, and Marc Benioff comes from he’s the CEO of Salesforce comes from the Oracle world. And so when he started his own company, he really put what I believe, as customer success on the map, and really define the role explaining what it is and the power that customer success managers can have, because they’re building the lifelong relationships with the customers. So if you if you go back to the original question, even sales, that initial sales that’s completed is very different than that renewal sales. Because the relationship is deepened, the trust is deepened, there’s a shift in how the buyer is viewing the renewal versus the initial sale.
07:16
Right. And it’s funny that you say Salesforce, because that was actually my first exposure to a customer success partner was as a Salesforce customer. But do you see this proliferating and other industries outside of tech? Because off the top of my head, I can I can think of at least like five examples of companies that need to rely on a customer through through their lifetime through, you know, renewals through subscriptions through things like this. Is this starting to proliferate in other industries as well?
07:46
Absolutely. I see it predominantly in places like beauty, dentistry, anything like that, where they realize we can we can get customers and predict revenue by getting them to sign up for quarterly or yearly commitments where we just automatically withdraw money from their account, we start sending them text messages, we give them a private concierge, a complimentary experience once a year, that is customer success, where you’re not just picking up the phone when they’re stuck, or they need help, but rather, how do we get you to become a loyal customer, one that will recommend our organization when we’re not in the room.
08:34
I love that so much. So let’s talk a little bit about you now that we kind of know the world you you plan. How did you come to this work? Tell us a little bit about your story, my fellow Italian.
08:48
I always joke that my customer success experience started as soon as my dad could put a rag in my hand and I could go clean the tables at at our pizzeria. One for over 30 years. So I really grew up serving customers. And I love people. And so when I when I landed in San Francisco in the late 90s, I was in customer marketing, I was a PMP certified project manager. And I happened to be at a child’s birthday party where someone overheard that I was looking for a new role, handed my resume to the founder of job bite. And that was really when not only was the economy in 2008 about to go way downhill, but customer success was surging as a profession and the founder yes were called me and said we’re looking for our first CSM want to join us. Let’s do it. And so over the six years span that I was at job but I essentially held every role from CSM to support direct of onboarding professional services, I really learned the profession deeply, before eventually moving on and going into customer success operations.
10:10
Nice. And now growth molecules helps clients all over build that function right and make it successful party. That’s why
10:18
we do everything from assessing people process and systems, to building actionable playbooks, we have a whole whole academy that educates Customer Success teams. So that’s really what we do we help companies protect and grow revenue.
10:35
I love it. I love it. Okay, so let’s talk about this function. And what makes a customer success manager successful, what makes a customer success team successful?
10:49
I believe there are many components. But I’ll start with one that’s really important. And finally being talked about in customer success, and not is the emotional piece. So not only emotional intelligence, what does that even mean? But the empathy factor, Maria, that that you’re so well known for. And what I mean by that is, as human beings, we purchase a product first with the motion, right, we have to build some sort of trust. And then behind that, we rationalize that mortgage payment, or that that first sticker shock bill we get for that quarterly commitment we just made, for example, but we feel better about it if we have an emotional commitment to it. So once that initial sale is completed, that’s really when the true relationship opens in a subscription economy. And you need to find a way to emotionally connect with your clients. I’m not saying every product needs to have a high touch Customer Success model. But there are too many technologies out there that you can have a digital experience with your customers, and still show empathy. Make sure that you’re understanding even with the bots today, they’re able to understand where is their emotion? And based on that emotion, how should we handle this customer? If you sense the frustration is this when you escalate it and ask the client can we call you, for example. So that is number one is really ensuring that customer success professionals understand the emotional intelligence behind the science of customer success. And then to being able to articulate with good communication, the value or impact the product is going to have on their own business, they need to be able to rationalize the emotional piece or the emotional investment they’re making in this relationship. Communication is terribly important, not only in written, but also in verbal. All too often you hear customer success managers that are really nervous, because they might be talking to a purse persona or a profile, they’re not usually exposed to maybe it might be a CEO, or a chief operating officer that creates nervousness in people. So how do you train them to remember, they’re just human beings, and they want help you know more about the product than they do. And that’s why they’re talking to. So the communication piece is the second. And then third demanding authority. If you allow your customers to tell you what they’re going to do with the product, or how they are going to use it, and you know very well that that way is the wrong path to success. You need to have leadership skills to lead your clients. So I would say those are the top three emotion, communication and leadership.
13:52
I love that because it is a role where where you have to be an advocate. And sometimes being an advocate means a customer might not get the answer they want, but they’re going to get the answer they need. And so I really love that you you differentiate those different skills. So obviously, why we’re talking is because of this really important piece of the emotional connection. And I’ve long worked with my brand clients on even when they’re talking about technology, or it’s a b2b sale, you’re still selling to a human being, there’s still a human being on the other end of the line, who is making decisions about their work and maybe with their company’s budget. But those decisions, reflect on them as a human being, it could be a decision that makes their life or job easier. It could be a decision that helps them advance in their career and build a legacy. And so it’s really about finding out what those what those levers are for what’s important to that person, what are their values, what are their aspirations, what are their goals? This is what Steve Jobs, despite his reputation as a manager, was really good at for his users was really under Standing, it’s not about the thing we’re selling, it’s about what the person is trying to do with it and who the person wants to be. So is there is there something is there? Is there a place where Customer Success organizations go wrong? Meaning, you know, the executives thinks it’s a great idea to actually shore up their customer success organization, or maybe they don’t have one, and they’re starting one. And, you know, they’re like, we’re gonna go do this? And what are some of the mistakes they make when they’re when they’re putting a customer success organization and customer success function inside their organization?
15:39
Yeah, so first of all, treating it like a new sale or sales, because again, it’s a very different play. Secondly, they are not thinking about the big picture. What is the customer journey, all too often companies come to us, when there’s a churn problem. They’re spending too much money on serving the customers. So more and more CSMs are being hired. But the churn is potentially increasing, and the number of customers aren’t increasing. So instead of it becoming a fire, starting customer success, proactively, really understanding what does the customer see as value? I cringe when I hear Customer Success leaders talk about their customers as accounts, they’re just accounts? Well, no, they’re not. They’re humans making decisions behind those accounts. And so even language shifts are really important when you’re starting a customer success organization, ensuring that you’re really thoughtful about how you speak about the people that you’re going to bring in and the people you’re serving. What are What do they care about? How are you going to help those needs help your customers become heroes in their own organization? And then secondly, looking at the processes. So do we have playbooks that the CSMs can actually leverage all too often, people who hire me or organization to coach them, they say, You know what, I learned the product, I’m certified in it. But I don’t know how to run an Executive Business Review. Can you teach me? And so those essential skills we don’t call anything we do soft skills, we call them essential, are critical. How do you lead a business meeting? How do you manage time? How do you manage stress? How do you avoid burnout, those kinds of things are really important. So putting those in your processes is really important as part of the education. And then last, but very important for efficiency purposes are, once you have the people in the processes identified, that you’ve tested, your, your 80%, they’re sure now you’re ready to execute, you want to make sure you have technology and systems in place to execute. Otherwise, your CSMs will quickly burnout and waste time make a lot more mistakes, because they’re doing repetitive actions that can actually be automated with technology.
18:12
So if you have folks in your organization that are serving as CSMs, let’s say they’re really good at the, at the function itself, but like you mentioned, maybe emotional intelligence is a little bit weaker, maybe they’re not sure how to tap into their empathy or strengthen their empathy. What do you do for your clients to help them get past that hurdle? Because that’s not just that’s not just one class, or one workshop or one, you know, here, watch this video, and all of a sudden, you will be a much more empathetic, you know, customer success manager. So how do you work with clients on that particular challenge, especially if they’ve got an existing team there that are maybe by virtue of not having that skill, making things worse for their customers?
19:00
I well, I don’t believe it’s something that you can just learn overnight, but it can be learned, and it has to be practiced in a coaching culture. So after we go through our series, we have several series and most of them doing include that emotional intelligence component, we give them skills to continue practicing, we encourage them to get uncomfortable listening to their own calls, giving themselves feedback on what they did well, and what they can improve. And with, in our own organization, we use Slack. So whenever we have a call with a client, and it’s recorded, we’ll put it up on a slack channel. And the requirement is you have to give yourself feedback on what you did well, and where you see opportunities to improve. And then you ask for feedback on the call. And people will say, Amelia, I don’t have time to listen to all these calls. Yes, you do. Do you can ask your team to share snippets. There’s so much technology out there, chorus, zoom in zoom info. Now, Gong, all of these products out there will let you share snippets where you want feedback or you want to just listen to your key words of how did you handle that difficult conversation? Right? I think that’s really important. putting yourself out there and being vulnerable, listening to your own voice. We all dislike our voices, being being our being our not critic, but person who’s willing to be vulnerable and give yourself permission to give feedback, knowing there’s no such thing as perfect. We can all improve the minute I stop improving, and feel like I’ve learned everything, I’m leaving customer success. I’m out of here, yeah, I want to be challenged. So as a leader, making sure that you’re willing to be vulnerable, and showing them that you’re willing to continuously improve as a first step to create that coaching culture of continuous learning.
21:04
I love that because as you know, in my book, one of the one of the traits and habits of empathetic leaders that I listed was, and also empathetic brands is being able to accept feedback as a gift. And so not taking it with defensiveness and your armor on but getting curious about it. Why? Why does that person have that impression of me? What What actions have I done that have caused that if that was not my intent, right, so getting a little bit more, you know, taking a step back, and being able to regulate your emotions enough to say, like, I can learn something from this feedback, this is actually a gift to me. Because if I’ve, if I’m acting this way, or if I’m doing something in a certain way, and nobody tells me that I have an opportunity to improve, that actually only hurts me in the end. So I love that that’s such an important part of the process that you tried to build in both for your own company and for your clients. Of that that has to be part of the process loop.
22:04
Yes. And one extra item to consider is you have to put yourself in your customers shoes, or to in the listener shoes. because not everyone’s like you, right? They may be a different gender, they may have different education, they’re looking at the challenge in a different way. They may come from a different country, the way you’re speaking to them may not resonate. So there’s many things that go into empathy. And that’s why I listed it as the number one trait.
22:37
I love that. I love that. So can you tell us about what have some of your clients been able to do after really getting things right with their customer service organizations and maybe working with you or on their own? What what deltas? Have you seen between where they were and where they get to once they’re able to, to shore up to three success traits that you talked about at the beginning of the podcast?
23:04
Yeah, so one, people get comfortable being uncomfortable and practicing with their colleagues. No longer is this shyness or uncomfortableness in the room. We teach all our classes with our cameras on we don’t use PowerPoints. So it’s very much a learn from each other environment. And so that suddenly becomes comfortable and actually fun. The number one complaint is that the teams say we need more breakout time to practice the skill they want to practice. So that’s a really positive outcome. Secondly, is the NRR. Net retention revenue. We had one client this year tell us their NRR went up to 160%, which is incredible. Their NPS, which we help them set up went to 87 their net promoter score Net Promoter Score, yes, that’s a jargon without explaining. And then one client recently we’ve been educating their customer success teams for two years now we’ve just taken their sixth cohort of hires through the program. And they told us that 80% of the company’s revenue will be managed by CSMs. And for me, incredible, yes. For me, it’s just it’s an incredible feeling to hear that knowing that the CSM feel so empowered to their customers and those renewals through expansion and more. So those are some stats that you can expect when your team is speaking a similar language, they have a methodology and they’re putting the human element behind the customer. First.
24:52
Do you think that leaders of CSM teams need to lead in a different way than other executives,
25:02
they need to lead in a way that they’re able to persuade and influence the rest of the organization. So that they continue to put the customer at the center. All too often product wants the product to be center, the CFO, cutting costs, bringing in more money. And at the heart, really, it’s that customer led growth, and not to be attacking, not to say, but the customer is the most important thing. But rather, where do all the different pieces fit across the customer journey, because without a customer, there isn’t a company. And so that is the number. Those are the two most important things when I’m coaching CEOs or a C, CEO or VP of CS directly. I tell them, you have to be able to persuade your team do things they may not feel comfortable with sometimes. And you need to be able to influence the rest of the organization, so that they’re able to see the customer journey as critical to the company’s success.
26:09
I love this so much. So I’m just going to pivot. I’m going to switch gears here for a second. Because not only you’re you’re doing amazing work with your customer success clients, but you are also a huge advocate for women in tech. And I have a question as a bridge on this. And then I want to talk about your work and your book around empowering women in tech, especially women in tech who have families. Would you say that in customer success, at least right now? Is there a pretty even weight in terms of male identifying female identifying? Is it a field that attracts more female identifying people like what’s the mix right now of the types of people that are drawn to CES?
26:55
While I don’t have statistics that I can share? At this time, I can say that, increasingly, more women are moving into leadership roles in customer success. I spoke on a panel pre COVID. And we did a deep research study on the number of women and men in customer success. And yes, indeed, at the time, circa 2018, there were more women in customer success. But at the leadership level, the men far outweighed the women. So that was your start. Yeah, see that that’s changing. One of the proudest moments I had was when I became a chief customer officer, not for myself or for the title, but to inspire other women that it is possible. And seeing so many women now have that title or moving into CEO, like the Chief Customer Officer of HubSpot, the moment she moved into the CEO role, the hot the HubSpot stock went through the roof, and so amazing being able to see those kinds of stats is truly inspiring. Is it does it lead more women into the profession? I can’t see with the statistic. But what I can say is two of our most recent clients are education companies. And they’ve come to us and said we’ve hired all these teachers. They’ve never been a CSM, they’ve left the teaching profession, which is sad, we need teachers in America, but they don’t know how to be a CSM. They know our education products well help us. And through that recent work, we have noticed that there are more women entering at least at the entry level. And I’m hoping that these women will become leaders.
28:46
I love that so much. That’s so good to hear. And you know, I think because it’s like you said it is a position that well, for many companies, it’s been sort of added on. It really is core to the success of the company, if you’re really going to be a customer centric organization, you need to have some sort of a function that’s around, not just like you said, reactive service, but proactive partnership with a customer to ensure that that you’re you’re holding their hand through the entire journey that hopefully will last a long time with your company. So I’m very heartened to see that there’s women entering that because it does seem so essential to the success of an organization, especially a tech company, but like we said, spreading out into other industries as well.
29:35
Agreed 100%.
29:36
So let’s talk a little bit as we wrap up, I want to talk a little bit about your book that came out last last year, pressing on as a tech mom how tech industry mothers set goals, define boundaries and raise the bar for success. Now that’s a book you authored solo or partnered with someone.
29:56
I partnered with pons, she’s the operating partner Growth molecules. And I actually had gone into her organization and did some teaching of her customer success team and then did a coaching three months session with them. And through that experience, she just had a baby and had some challenges which she talks about in the book. But then after the coaching was completed with her organization, she asked me if I would continue to mentor her, and through that loss of this friendship, and fast forward to COVID times, are you ready to write a book together about our experience as mothers and I said, Absolutely. So we surveyed over 300 women globally. And then we did a lot of research, we share our own stories, and we did primary research with 12 Women who we feature in the book, they all come from different stages of life. And our goal in the book is to educate people who are not parents, a lot of CEOs predominantly are male, and we want to educate the technology world to show them that there is a place for women who have children, we may work a little bit differently, but we are productive. And we bring a voice to the table that is often reflective of the buyer. And so we believe that many different voices need to be at the table, and especially during COVID. So many women left technology. And so we’re on a mission to change that, bring them back and encourage women like my daughters to go into a tech field as they consider options going into university.
31:46
Well, of course, I fully support that work. And what I love also about the book is, you know, there’s that theme again, for you have empathy, because it really is about presenting the stories of these women and the hoops they jump through the challenges they face, but the incredible value they bring to organizations to help those who might not understand have empathy for the women in their organizations, and to hopefully be moved to mentor to be an ally, to you know, speak up for those women when those women are not in the room to make sure that they have a place at the leadership table. Because ultimately, it all comes back to organizational performance, as if we need a better reason than just equity. Right. But it does come down to the organization performs better, when there is that, that diversity of thought that diversity of perspective and experience in the leadership ranks. And so really, really encouraging moms to stay in the workforce when they have so much to give. And I love what you said about it, we may have to work a little bit differently. But it’s an adaptation that’s worth it for the performance of the organization in the end.
33:00
That’s right. And I do see technology companies moving in the right way. When I had my first child, there was no maternity leave, I use my vacation days. Same with my second one I I was living in Oklahoma and there was absolutely no maternity leave, I use five and a half weeks of vacation. And that was that back to work on I gosh, it was challenging. And I am a huge advocate of being inclusive of parents, regardless of gender, making a place for them to continue working.
33:34
I love that. So the name of the book, again is pressing on as a tech Mom, we will have the link in the show notes. Amelia, this has been such a pleasure. Thank you for your insights and for educating us a little bit more about the customer success function and its essential illness to the organization’s performance. All your connection links will be in the show notes. But where can folks find out more about you and your work?
33:57
You bet it’s that growth molecules.com
34:01
Perfect. And thanks again for your time today. Thanks for having me, Maria. And thank you everyone for listening to another great episode of the empathy edge podcast. As always, if you enjoyed it, please tell a friend tell a colleague tell a client and don’t forget to rate and review if you have an opportunity. Until next time, please remember that cashflow creativity and compassion are not mutually exclusive. Take care and be kind.
For more on how to achieve radical success through empathy, visit the empathy edge.com. There you can listen to past episodes, access show notes and free resources. Book me for a Keynote or workshop and sign up for our email list to get new episodes insights, news and events. Please follow me on Instagram at Red slice Maria. Never forget empathy is your superpower. Use it to make your work and the world a better place.
