Can we ever bridge our political divides here in the US? Every day, things seem to get worse. We argue over guns, abortion, civil rights, and whether removing state secrets from the White House and locking them in your safe at home constitutes a crime. But what would happen if people on both sides could engage in meaningful dialogue? What if we all took personal responsibility to spot the lies by getting curious and doing our homework?
Today, I got to talk to a Twitter influencer I’ve been following for some time now, David Weissman. David and I discuss his story and how he grew up only consuming Conservative information and assumed it was all true. How we believed Democrats were trying to hurt this country and the shared values that attracted him to Trump’s campaign in 2016. David talks about how one Twitter conversation with actress and comedian Sarah Silverman sparked his curiosity to dig deeper into the Constitution and pundit claims, where he realized how many fear-based lies he had been told. Having stood in both camps, I ask him what we should know about why the Conservative message resonates with people, and how he thinks we can find common ground one empathetic conversation at a time.
To access this episode transcript, please scroll down below.
Key Takeaways:
- Kindness and civil conversation will go further than name-calling or mudslinging ever will, regardless of which side of the conversational divide you are on.
- The magic of empathy is that if we can really deeply listen and understand that we can deeply listen without agreeing with each other, initially, we can at least have a conversation.
- People will not always change what they believe even when faced with facts. They have to be willing to change, do their own research, and see things from a different perspective.
“No one tried to convert me, and that made me more curious and made me want to ask questions.”
— David Weissman
About David Weissman: Army Vet, Former Trump Supporter Turned Jewish Liberal Democrat, and Political Opinion Writer
David Weisman is an Army Veteran, having served throughout the US and overseas for 13 years in Germany and Afghanistan as a Chaplain’s Assistant. He has politically gone from Republican Conservative to Tea Party to MAGA to Independent and now Jewish liberal progressive. By sharing his journey of curiosity about the differences between the Democrat and Republican agendas, he’s gained a huge following on Twitter, more than 300k followers. He uses that platform to share information, engage in dialogue, and ask questions. David is currently getting his college degree in social work at the University of Central Florida.
Connect with David:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/davidmweissman
References Mentioned:
“I Thought Trump Was for Me. Now I’m Organizing Against Him”, by David Weissman, Forward
Where the Jan 6 Insurrection Investigation Stands: One Year Later, NPR. FBI tapes of Danny Rodriquez.
Bag Man, podcast series by Rachel Maddow, MSNBC. 2018.
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FULL TRANSCRIPT BELOW:
Can we ever bridge our political divides here in the US? Every day, things seem to get worse. We argue over guns, abortion, civil rights and whether removing state secrets from the White House and locking them in your safe at home constitutes a crime. But what would happen if people on both sides could engage in a meaningful dialogue? What if we all took personal responsibility to spot the lies by getting curious and doing our homework? My guest today proves that empathetic engagement, not name calling can help. I’ve been wanting to do this interview for a long time to better understand the motivations of Trump supporters. And today I got to talk to a Twitter influencer I’ve been following for some time. David Wiseman. David is an Army veteran, having served throughout the US and overseas for 13 years in Germany and Afghanistan as a chaplains assistant, which I will explain in this episode. He’s politically gone from Republican conservative to Tea Party, to Magga supporter to independent and now self-proclaimed Jewish liberal progressive by sharing his journey of curiosity and fact finding. He’s followed by more than 340,000 people on Twitter. He uses that platform to share information, engage in dialogue and ask questions. David’s currently getting his college degree in Social Work at the University of Central Florida. David and I discuss his story and how he grew up only consuming conservative information, and assumed it was all true how he believed Democrats were trying to hurt this country and the shared values that attracted him to Trump’s campaign in 2016. I even asked him what he thought about Trump’s campaign behavior, which included mocking some veterans. David talks about how one Twitter conversation with actress and comedian Sarah Silverman sparked his curiosity to dig deeper into the Constitution and pundit claims, which he realized how many fear-based lies he had been told. Having stood in both camps, I asked him what we should know about why the conservative message resonates for people and how he thinks we can find common ground one empathetic conversation at a time. A note about this episode, I’m pretty vocal about my stance on certain issues. But this was not meant to be a conversion episode to flip anyone politically. In fact, I share that I was once a conservative Republican. Rather, this episode is about understanding people who may or may not see the world the same way you do. And the dangers on any issue of being in a bubble where the truth gets distorted, and paints the other side as the enemy most. We share how respectful dialogue is really the way to gather information and build bridges. I truly believe David’s story will stay with you. Stay tuned.
Maria Ross 05:17
Welcome to the empathy edge. David Wiseman, this has been such a long time coming. I’m such a fan. And I’m so honored and excited that you’re joining us here on the empathy edge to really help us put ourselves in another person’s shoes, especially crossfire very, very deep. US political divides right now. So, thank you for being here and spending time with us today.
David Weissman 05:40
Thank you, Maria. Thank you for having me on.
Maria Ross 05:43
So real quickly, for folks that don’t know you, as I know you, I know you from Twitter, because I started following you i and what how many hundreds of 1000s of followers do you have now?
David Weissman 05:55
Three hundred thousand?
Maria Ross 05:57
Or, so follow you because of your great story and your passion for the truth, and your love for this country. So, just tell us quickly your story, your your history of military service and where you are now.
David Weissman 06:13
Sure. almost 18 years old, at a high school, I joined the military to join the Army. I served for 13 years as a chaplain assistant. And when a chaplain assistant, this is protect the chaplain in combat, you know, that’s the main priority of what we do. We will also do other tasks, things like administrative skills, logistics peer counseling for soldiers are like the eyes and ears on the soldiers need it. So, it was a great job, right? Great career and my parents again, traveled all over the country station in Germany as well and points of innocence whites in prison compared to yours, and then out and I live in Israel for a few years and being Jewish, that’s another story was starting to come back to the States. And you know, I’m going to school kind of turn in a second chance. And I’m trying to get my life together and think I’m doing just that.
Maria Ross 07:21
Right. Yeah. And you’re studying now, you’re going to be pursuing a degree in social work at UCF. Yeah, Florida, that’s wonderful.
David Weissman 07:31
Challenging me for veterans, you know, out of the military, and they can, you know, having a tough time trying to transition. And, you know, I learned a lot of lessons in my own life, sort of things, I mean, and decisions. And I mean, that I feel like everything I’ve learned, I can gain time for them, as well as making sure they get the benefits that they really deserve.
Maria Ross 07:56
Absolutely. Well, and I thank you for your service, of course. And this is what makes you so so wonderful to follow is that, you know, you are a veteran, you clearly have served this country you love this country. And I love in your you know, in your some of the articles that you’ve written and on Twitter, you talk about your evolution from being a very staunch Republican. And I think in one place I saw, you know, you went from Tea Party to Maga to independent to now you’re a liberal, a Jewish Liberal Democrat. And you have run the gamut. And I feel, you know, I feel a kinship with you a little bit not in similarity at all those things, obviously. But you know, I grew up very much just exposed to the conservative Republican point of view. And I’m sure you’ve read research as well, that says that as we get older, we get more conservative, and I have gotten more progressive. And you know, that’s why I feel this kinship with you of like, Oh, I’m not the only one that goes through this journey. So, tell us a little bit what what I find fascinating about your story is that you are very, very committed to Donald Trump and the Magga movement in 2016. I would like for all of us to understand, you know, what attracted you to that message, what resonated for you as as the party stance with him as a candidate? What What were you feeling about things and what wasn’t working for you at the time about government that made that such an attractive option?
David Weissman 09:32
Sure. All I was Republican. You know, I was experimenting growing up and started for many years and when I was 18, you know, registered as Republican. I am lean, you know, from what I understand what Republican and conservative values were, a lot of it had to do with religion. As a pink part of it, I was a lot more religious. Growing up. And so yeah, that’s easy to get on. And, you know, and the thing is, like, even as a conservative, you think that, you know, other conservative pundits, or Republicans or, you know, officials, they believe in God, they believe in, you know, your values, all that you never think they would mind you or have a specific agenda. So, you know, I never really questioned it. And this sort of explain how right wing I was, you know, like I said, I was Tea Party. In fact, I actually, I actually want to pretend prison in primaries, I don’t often talk about it much when a socially and seeing how things turn out lately. When I was that right wing conservative, and, but there are there were a lot of similarities between him and Trump very similar messages. So, it was easy to Trump on the Trump train.
Maria Ross 11:02
So, so was it a values alignment for you? Or did you were you attracted to the vision about some of the other messages around, you know, controlling immigration or America first?
David Weissman 11:14
Yeah, a lot of it was fear, indoctrination, immigrants, about Muslims about Democrats wanting to take their rights away. You know, I really thought Democrats were the enemy. One time I thought Obama was a Muslim. You know, a lot of it is very, like fear driven. When you listen to conservative media, buying, you can have like a terror attack that can happen, you know, across the country. And there’s like, a tiny minute, um, well, if I aren’t extremism, conservatives will take that and say, you know, this is Islam. And it’s like, you know, I was like, holy cow, and they really demonized slaying Democrats trying because 911 happened, and that was a huge know, it wasn’t bad. Of course, it was a bad incident to America, but seeing how Muslims were being treated, you know, in general, you know, as I see now, and I see how Democrats really trying to, like, you know, let Muslims get persecuted, or, you know, for your training and all that stuff. And, you know, what, you know, when I was in Poland in Australia, that was the only stuff I was paying, honoring, pandering to the enemy. You know, and, you know, we have Democrats or we, you know, we in China, in the military, sometimes and things like that, and then the same stuff that you see today. Oh, they want to take where on the planet? Yeah, my, my mistake was I would like some before I always took the conservative pundit word for it, you know, I, a lot of them. And I didn’t really read the fine print of the Constitution, like, you know, right to bear arms, I suppose. Like, okay, right, open your eyes and then things for me. The things for me, the fine print of that. So,
Maria Ross 13:12
Um, yeah. And when, you know, when there were so many scandals around Trump during that that campaign for example, when he was making fun of some service people when he you know, oh, called John McCain a coward. How did you feel about that as a veteran?
David Weissman 13:27
Well, um, I kind of brushed it aside because McCain wasn’t asking you like, why conservatives because you work with Democrats and Republican work with Democrats. They’re considered rhinos and Republican and a moaning only a lot of conservatives want and conservative America may expect America to be a certain, a certain way, right? Somebody’s saying, you know, my insert privacy when and you know, and and to some extent people write it, you know, a lot of people don’t realize that.
Maria Ross 14:06
Did you brush it off when he was sort of mocking some military veterans that were of, you know, Islamic descent and all that. Did you just think it was that he was just being political? Like, how did you feel about that?
David Weissman 14:20
I thought he has just been in survival by you know, making comments about you know, like, like Muslims at the time, so I kind of agree with him. Um, it even even when I was a chaplain assistant, and only had an Islamic chaplain and I kind of I, as bad as it sounds, I was getting very rarely given especially being Jewish as well. You know, I in an era of trust for Muslims. I never really took the time to get alone. My mother Hannah actually experience, afternoon dialogue. If we have Time I can share a little bit about that. Changing that as well. So yeah, I mean, it’s easy to like, like, laugh at their jokes or in Greenwich, I want to come as I was bullied, right? Because in the fear and consternation that sometimes for so many years.
Maria Ross 15:18
Right, right, so it was it was aligning for you in the beliefs that you had had and what you’ve grown up with. And I’m curious, just because you know, you are a Jewish American. What about the rhetoric around like a Christian America? Did that ever rub you the wrong way? Or anything? It was better than the alternative of the other side? Like, how, how did you reconcile that in your head?
David Weissman 15:42
Well, I like it. I mean, like, when I can tell I actually am religious beliefs. I was like, you know, there was little like, marijuana. But as far as like political evidence, or any very similarities, and you know, anything about abortion, you know, depending upon what’s sitting on or what person you listen to, like, the only justification for abortion is like, you know, mother’s life is in jeopardy. When she was like, locks. Early on it apparently like other sanctioned cronyism, so it was like, really very similar to Christianity in some aspects.
Maria Ross 16:23
Right. Right. Okay.
David Weissman 16:25
I used to listen to guys like Ben Shapiro, Mark Levi, and other right wing Republican Jews, and similar conservative messages. Now and so you know, Americans, Judeo Christian country. So, so I, you know, so for so many years, I used to think like, you know, it was very similar on links. And, you know, anchor different local differences. Like what we’re like, again, and things like that. That’s not that’s actually often in northern Louisiana, really brought up on the Republican side from Republican Jews. And probably confession is when I really got into math with me. I mean, at least with my own experience, I can see.
Maria Ross 17:07
Yeah, you were more you were more aligned around the political values and the political agendas then, and then sort of the religious stuff was well, to each their own thing. Yeah. Okay. I hear you, I hear you. So, obviously, you were you were very committed. I’ve seen you post photos on Twitter, have you in full Magga garb, you know, going to rallies or whatever. So what was the turning point for you? How did you start to open up to a different perspective, a different viewpoint? And if you can tell us a little bit about the Twitter exchange with the famous celebrity that helped spark that for you?
David Weissman 17:44
Yeah, sure. I guess this very point. Was, was against on the initial dialogue, though. Sarah Silverman, and I had
Maria Ross 17:57
Sarah Silverman the actress and comedian,
David Weissman 17:59
Correct. Yeah, she posted I guess, Kameni memes about like, Trump being Nancy or, and I was like, like, you know, I, you know, we’re just like, in my sort of sentence winner, cuz sometimes we try to get conservative, or conservatives will try to get little rules to every game. And saying, you know, and he told her, how do we allow people like, transcend Nazi offense, compared to Hitler to compare Trump to Hitler. Sorry about that. And you know, how to, you know, turn around until you know, when to do that, and then Chafee on and just sort of explain how common use and track the so it’s opinionated. And that explains Matt and well, that and so sharing spine. And so now, it’s kind of surprising, because normally, the typical response with me, blogging, or name calling or arguing socially, Ashley wasn’t like that. And so that kind of struck me off guard. And, and then I, for some reason, is that I’m kind of curious and like, wondering, you know, she responded, and I’m wondering why liberals believe it I think, as we do, or why she doesn’t like Trump, she is true us. Trump is pro-Israel, why not me? Because when you’re when you’re when you’re a right-wing Jew, Israel is like a huge talking point, like the security of Israel. And I know, I know, it is, I know, that’s a huge complicated issue. And then we’ll kradic party, but in public and sign up to watch. You know, it was pretty straightforward. So, I asked, like I mentioned, you know, screen and fellowship and like, when is this your support is, when does it support Trump? And then he explains to me why she doesn’t like it. Like him. And I explained to her why I didn’t and it was actually a civil discussion. And it was very rare. It’s better. And then, you know, and then I kind of You know, he was able to buy along. And like I said, I kind of, you know, my wall, I’ll limit them. Democrats were always the enemy, you know. Right, right.
Maria Ross 18:00
Right.
David Weissman 19:26
And the enemy. So, you know, I started asking her more questions about liberals, liberal values, and I started talking to others, the same people were seeing what’s going on with me. And is this Trump’s, we’re having a similar event with a liberal. So, I began to learn more about low values Summit, and they haven’t made any decisions to leave the republican party or any substance, or anything like that.
Maria Ross 20:40
Right. You were just you were just having conversations. And it sounds like, it sounds like empathy played a key role in you even being able to have those conversations because, like you mentioned it, she wasn’t name calling you she was just engaging in a dialogue with you genuinely, why do you believe what you believe? And here’s why I believe what I believe and what sounds like that opened the door to you at least? Well, first of all, you feeling heard, right? But also, to you being able to hear a different perspective without walking away. So, which is the magic, you know, why I do this work is the magic of empathy can actually if we, if we can really deeply listen and understand that we can deeply listen without agreeing with each other. Initially, we can at least have a conversation, which is what is so hard about this divide is the sides don’t even want to talk to each other right now.
David Weissman 21:33
Right? And thing is like Sheena forced me to saying you’re wrong. You’re wrong, you know? I mean, I mean, iversity, liberals and Democrats so that, I mean, yeah, I mean, yeah, they might, they might have made me right. But sometimes that doesn’t always work when you try to have an interest in Yeah, or, I mean, she didn’t say that at all. In in one trying to convert me to you know, and it’s coming, I’m more curious and ask questions. And, and then, you know, I learned that Republicans were wrong, you know, about what was being done. It’s, you know, and, you know, I read the fine print of the Constitution, you know, well-regulated militia, and, you know, the rights that actually, you know, the Second Amendment right is right to bear arms. And it doesn’t say that, Oh, you have the right to own any kind of songs, I kind of, you know, what, that is true. And, you know, and read more on the AR fifteens. And learn, you know, they were actually weapons of war weapons aren’t meant for. And, you know, maybe, you know, pain should not be enhanced civilians in so, you know, other you know, abortion, pro-choice, that’s a huge one is I know, conservative can hate Trump. I will vote for him because pro-life state, you know, so I, you know, and I learned, you know, why don’t Democrats don’t like abortion? I mean, don’t even call it Pro.
Maria Ross 23:08
Most women don’t want to have an abortion. I know. And the more the more you hear those stories from women that I think and I grew up with this to this picture painted, for example, about abortion is this image of a girl who’s been irresponsible about sex acts, and she’s doing this as a as a way to get out of it. But actually, the majority of abortions are, you know, different health situations, many married couples have had to make the decision about having an abortion with a baby, they want it right. And so, the more you hear those stories, ectopic pregnancies, women who had to start undergoing cancer treatment, the minute they found out they were pregnant, different, different issues like that different issues around you know, a baby being born with certain, like painful abnormalities that they’re only going to survive a couple of days after birth. Like what is so you you start to hear all these different stories and recognize that it’s not so black and white, right? It’s and it’s then it’s why it has to be so specific to those situations and pulling out from just abortion. It sounds like to me tell me if I’m wrong, having these empathetic conversations where you could be heard and not insulted, alright, enabled you or inspired you motivated you to go learn more, because you’re probably one of the few people that’s read the fine print of the constitution. So I love that that sparked for you not only that you felt heard, but it also motivated a desire to actually dig into the topics and learn more.
David Weissman 24:47
Right? And I Ella and I learned not to always take a Punnett Square print is how my journey started is realizing that Republicans lie to stay in power. I that’s what I decided to leave their home. Pardon me, I was still a Trump supporter design. I mean, yeah, he was I found that he was a guy, I mean, a guy in a lot of things. He wasn’t perfect. I mean, sure. And he said, you know, Graham went, you know, and, you know, Assabet you know, and, and all kinds of stuff in the locker room. So, I, I’m gonna think that he would, you know, rank women or anything like that. And you know, as a conservative Julian’s bleep, in essence, know, from a guilty of saying, I really lean, you know, a while women kind of thing, you know, so, man in a lot, and I had no idea of any of his corruption from Trump boring, and I’m Russian. His history with Putin, any of that stuff, I had no idea. I just know him as an actor. He played in movies, games, millionaire, you know, it’s great for any economy. You know, Sean Hannity kept on saying at all, it’s fine. You know, it’s patriotic, and I didn’t know he was a tripod her.
Maria Ross 26:03
Yeah. And that he had actually supported the Clintons. And when they were running, yeah.
David Weissman 26:10
I don’t know, man, either.
Maria Ross 26:12
He was he was a Democrat. And actually, I just recently read that the Clintons were at his third marriage at his wedding. So yeah, he was very tight with them for a long time. He was a Democrat. So it’s very interesting. or I shouldn’t say I don’t know, if he was actually a Democrat. I want to be factually accurate here. I knew that he supported some of those candidates. So, I don’t know what he was registered as. But so yeah, so it sounds like you really got your eyes open. And then what was actually, you know, you’re learning you’re getting more information.
David Weissman 26:44
Yeah. So, I learned from other people, not just Sara, nine conversations offline as well with people about Trump’s history, and who he really was, and I was complaining for. And I think he like, you know, I mean, how’s he gonna be a track pattern? You know, and then that’s a huge thing. I mean, if I knew then, I mean, I could have made it happen. So, if I know that when I was a Republican, I mean, that’s almost like that huge thing, I think. And you know, all these eruptions and scandals and stealing charities. All thanks, stuff. And then I think what really put the nail in the coffin was Helsinki when he met with Putin, behind closed doors, and even today, we still have no idea what was said between them in see how things are with Russia now and how things are, I mean, is a huge national security threat for the country. You know, it’s it’s been FBI finding documents from the White House, you know, and this is one of the classic special violations. Many years ago.
Maria Ross 28:01
What, what for you, because there’s so many at least, looking at it from the, you know, when folks like me who had never supported him, look at it from the outside looking in you, you did your homework, and you believed the facts presented to you. In your opinion, what do you think? Is it about the core group of diehard Magaz that, you know, we could have a videotape of Trump going, I did it. I did everything I lied, I stole state state secrets, I sent them to Russia, they still wouldn’t believe it. What, what do you think was the difference for you of like, you believed what you read, and you were seeing what you were learning versus the people that even when the facts are presented to them? won’t believe it? Like I think that’s the million-dollar question that people have about Magga supporters is even when presented with the evidence, they explain it away.
David Weissman 28:55
I think, I think I learned how Republican Party it’s so it was like liars, wins is BS. Anyone needs some form was a lie based off lies. And I think that’s kind of helped me see who Trump is. I mean, he didn’t really hated it. I don’t think he really changed the Republican Party or he just basically exposed to the RAS right. I mean, once they. So, I think with me, seeing that first vote, Republicans seen evidence all difference between 10 News and Trump. You know, I think that’s a better for me. And as I learned, probably other Trump voters haven’t seen it, and they still have the fear of Democrats. You know, they always go What about Hunter Biden? What about Hillary Clinton? What? No, yeah, wait, no, we don’t want to look at their own house. So.
Maria Ross 29:58
Right.
David Weissman 29:59
So
Maria Ross 29:59
Right. So, do you is do you feel like part of your mission is to? Or maybe it’s not? Do you talk with other Republican supporters, Maga supporters and try to? Do you even try to showcase this? Do you try to like, listen to them the way somebody listened to you? Like, how do you go about trying to build those bridges?
David Weissman 30:22
Isn’t rough years, you know, I find them try. I mean, I was the one at one point I was angry and realizing how I was wanting to well, pond pump and trade. And then you know, and, and so it was kind of hard to, like, nice. I then, you know, I think, you know, sometimes I might impart vengeance on my own, and I kind of realized I made mistakes, you know, going through this process, because it was, it felt like a huge worldview change. And then there are times where, you know, when Trump was or saw that I was, you know, having someone sessions with Democrats call me trainer call me this and that, and it got bad to the point getting into my personal life. Mine and my situation like in that and how my ex-wife has a Trump supporter, that’s a completely different story there. But so, you know, they’re, they’re really hard moments when they’re in good moments. And I, you know, I still feel like, you know, you shouldn’t dialogue I feel, and I admire the heck out of paint penetrant who posing FoxNews? Because, you know, those are the people that need to hear all the facts, those are the people near near. So, what’s really going on with situations? Because, you know, I mean, I, I know, a lot of tweets of mine, where I, where I asked questions, and you know, a lot of it is rhetorical, you know, and I’m followed by people, all kinds of background. So, you know, I know it No, notice, these are tweets, that was one of the things I learned about Twitter is like, you never know, if it’s watching or no one’s paying attention. So, you know, I, you know, you know, I don’t know if I’m converting any money. But, you know, I might, you know, it’s worth a shot.
Maria Ross 32:12
You know, right, you’re just gonna continue to talk about what you’ve learned and share your truth and take that approach instead of trying to convert everybody. Right?
David Weissman 32:22
Right. And I know what mine can annoy my talking about wine turning you into a when I think it was just born. It was important to me, and I think, you know, emotion here more?
Maria Ross 32:33
Well, and I think we should talk about the fact you know, I, again, I want to mention this, like, I have family and friends that are that are Republican, they’re not Trump fans. But there’s more the classic moderate Republicans around policy issues and around whatever, and they’re good people. Yeah, and they’re good people. And so you know, that’s the thing we try to we divide ourselves into these black or white based on labels, but there’s all these shades within, you know, even even demp the Democratic side, there’s super, super progressive liberals. And there’s more moderate, right. And it’s the same as true. It’s, it’s not necessarily that, oh, you’re Republican, you’re bad or Oh, you’re Democrat, you’re getting into that conversation of, you know, what are the things you believe, I feel like the very vocal faction that are huge supporters of, of Trump and will constantly make excuses for the things, the crimes he’s committed for, quite frankly, I feel like that’s such an extremist arm of that party. And I’m just, you know, my, my prayer, and my hope is that the moderate side wins out so we can go back to having healthy debates about issues where both sides are, are presented, and it’s not just like, crazy, crazy people, right?
David Weissman 33:52
I mean, it does seem I mean, I really hope that would happen, but it doesn’t seem like it is ever seen, like an error. What happened in Arizona, why in Wyoming elections, Republican wins, so I’m really, you know, this is kind of troubling. I mean, when I was when I was a Republican, you know, can faction cannot was sold law, I mean, even even Trump or Trump errs, like, call them they were kind of extreme. So, there are certain kinds of levels of conspiracies like, right, you know, I believed in the emails, you know, I knew I wanted Hillary Clinton to be accountable for emails in passing and things like that, like the whole pizza gate thing, you know? Yeah. A lot of us knew that it was, you know, it was pretty easy. But we you know, yeah, we played in a while again, and you know, the Fast and Furious scandals and all that stuff. So, men and I how I see how Republican Party is turning and it’s mind boggling to see how Canada room together Uncle or stick an ordinary political party. I mean, never in a million years would I ever it’s thought there and probably begins when the men and overthrow the election process. explain something the Republican Party was always about the Constitution.
Maria Ross 35:19
Exactly. I was going to bring up I heard a podcast on NPR that I will the name is escaping me. I do this all the time. I mentioned a podcast I heard and then I forget on the air what it was, but I will find it. I was listening to an NPR podcast where they were interviewing the son of Guy refet, the person, the guy who got turned in for his role in January 6 by his son. And also they talked to Danny Rodriguez, who was one of the people at the Capitol. And he was in tears over he got convicted for something around it. And he was in tears, because he was saying, I really thought I was the good guy. I thought that we were doing what was right to protect this country. And then I think back to what I did, and how I harmed. But he he’s the one who tased, the police officer and got jail time for it. He’s like, and he said, I can’t believe I was so caught up that I would do that to an officer of the law. But I really thought I was the good guy at the time. So did it did it kind of feel that way in the beginning that you for you like we’re on the right side of this not the right conservatively but the right versus wrong side.
David Weissman 36:32
It’s so true. I mean, maybe we felt, you know, mad liberals and Democrats were the bad guy is the enemy of America. So, I haven’t been swore I you know, make the last is Who is this bank? Alaska, he has a problem?
Maria Ross 36:52
No, I don’t.
David Weissman 36:54
He got arrested in one of the prime ways I got arrested in my tweet, because I actually still up. And I can show you after we get off air, you know, or, you know, but you know him and I work out differences. With me being Jewish, and him being a Nazi. And, you know, I send my own words like there’s war coming. You know, I stay with me the last that is times me and like the right. So, it’s, you think instead of smiling, this was fear in nature, we fear for our freedoms for our liberties, or our independence. And that’s why it’s so easy to believe that Democrats were the bad guys. And you know, so people ask me what I am. What I mean, in January 6, if I was Trump supporter, I showed them that tweet, and that answers that question for them. So, yeah, I mean, it’s a completely different worldview. Describe it.
Maria Ross 37:56
Right, right. So, what do you think is the most important thing people need to know about Trump supporters? And, you know, whether whether they’re Republican or Democrat, like what what do you think people need to know about what their what their goals and their their values are?
David Weissman 38:16
I think they believe America needs to be a certain way. Namely, and I think many. Yeah, sure. Are there racist Trump supporters Absolutely. Is Trumpism. Even conservative ism, racist, in a way? Yeah, some aspects. But I think a lot of people don’t realize it is a racist mentality. A lot of people, you know, that women don’t realize they’re wrong, or not wanting gay marriage, or, you know, equality, LGBT, they really needed our Bible, that, you know, marriage was wrong, and something that was wrong. So, namely, in evangelizing plans, pods, where they, when they’re doing it for the country, what they don’t realize, but that’s not, that’s not who American really is. So, I think that’s why if you want to sit down and talk to Trump errs, trying to change their mind or open their views and gotta have no expectations, and I was talking about wanting to confirm that this happened on the sound foundation. Like how what happened with me, so, you know, one of them care about the country, kind of, we’re having some people in us both noise, you know, that it’s mad, or they’re being lied to, you know.
Maria Ross 39:34
With in your opinion, could help with that. You know, I know that the more dramatic view that people took after, even after 2020 You know, when Biden won, I remember I said this, I was like, Yeah, I’m happy about it. But I don’t know how we deprogram 70 million people. So, do you think there’s any possibility of that?
David Weissman 39:56
Oh, yeah, of course. We want to has been a happy patient. Things, no expectations, show them the facts, to try to get them to stick on a soundtrack without letting them go well, what about in some way? Like sometimes like where I listen to people like try hard and work? What’s Republicans walk all awareness questions like knowing that it’s staying on the issue around questions. Trump’s White House documents when it’s home, like, don’t keep it like.
Maria Ross 40:36
Don’t let it stray. Yeah. And I think there’s also a place for, you know, also acknowledging the emotion around it, because I feel part of the challenge has been and again, this isn’t about trying to indoctrinate Republicans to vote Democrat, but that’s not necessarily what we’re talking about here. We’re talking about extremists.
David Weissman 40:56
This is why
Maria Ross 40:57
Yeah
David Weissman 40:58
Against slack from Democrats, when I promote Liz Cheney, you know, I was born in her a lot. Yeah, it’s like, it’s like, I know, I’ll never vote for her for President. But, you know, we should have Republicans who are respectable while in office. Right. Now, it’s no point worrying here agreeing to disagree.
Maria Ross 41:17
I remember. Like maybe 10 sometime last year, I listened to a podcast. It was a Rachel Maddow SIX series or eight series podcast called the bag man. And it was about Nixon’s vice president Spiro Agnew, and, and the very large role he played, he was actually sort of the brains behind the operation of a lot of what happened with with Watergate, as well as his own corruption scandals when he was in office in New York. And it’s, it’s fascinating if you ever get a chance to listen to it, because, first of all, you could have changed the names and it would sound like what was what’s been happening in our country the last few years. But the biggest thing that gave me hope about it was the chief prosecutors who eventually ended up forcing the resignation and especially the resignation of Spiro Agnew. We’re stuck staunch Republicans, and they got threatened. They got black balls, they got, you know, one of them even one of them had a brother, who the campaign and Agnew and those guys tried to turn made his brother tried to threaten the brother to drop the investigation. And he wouldn’t it was just he’s really principled, values driven people who said this is wrong. Like it doesn’t matter that we politically agree with this party. No one is above the law. And we have to at all costs to ourselves to our families, we have to make the truth known. And it was so heartening to, to hear that that they, you know, still kept the same political views their entire lives. But they were like, but no, that’s criminal. And that’s wrong. And it needs to be accounted for. And they were brave enough to stand up.
David Weissman 43:04
Just like many of them, people who testified in the attorney ratings committee hearings, many of them were.
Maria Ross 43:11
Right. Right. And you think about so many of the people that testified during Trump’s impeachment hearings like Alexander vindman, that, that lost their careers, it’s like, they put their entire career on the line to tell their truth. And they paid such a price for it. And, you know, I just, I’m just thankful there’s people like that in the world. I don’t care. You know, I don’t care if it’s a Republican being impeached or democrat being impeached or someone I voted for being impeached, like people need to be held accountable, leaders need to be held accountable. Right. So, I think that’s where we met, maybe somehow we can find common ground is I think we all agree that no one is above the law. I think we all agree, we don’t want to jeopardize this country by having someone reveal state secrets to an enemy. I think we all agree, you know, and just maybe if we start the conversations from that, that common ground, which I always talk about in terms of one of the one of the habits of empathetic leadership and of strengthening your empathy is trying to at least figure out what you have in common before you move forward in the conversation about your different points of view. Absolutely. Yeah. So, so are you so like, kind of a yes or no? Or maybe Are you hopeful that the riffs can be healed? You can be honest.
David Weissman 44:43
I mean, anything else possible? No, I don’t know. I I’m just getting imprinted into Spalding. But,
Maria Ross 44:53
yeah, yeah. Well, I’m hopeful too. And I just, we, I don’t know How it happens, but I’m hopeful we’ll we’ll find a way out of it at some point. So, so what’s next for you? You are you’re, you’re going to college or you’re studying to you’re studying social work? Are you going to continue to, you know, be on tour, you have a huge Twitter following. So, you are an influencer? Right? Are you going to continue to to use that platform for political awareness? Or how are you hoping to use that platform?
David Weissman 45:24
Um, well, yeah, I have my own careers, social media career that I hope to pursue. And, yeah, I definitely plan to continue advocacy and trying to build bridges and try to anti along and hold people accountable, you know, all about winning and wrong. So, yeah, that’s not gonna stop, you know, politics are in the internal scene. I mean, I’m only 41. So, I’m still young.
Maria Ross 45:52
Awesome. And my big question is, did you ever get a chance to meet Sarah Silverman live or have a live conversation with her.
David Weissman 45:58
Not yet.
Maria Ross 46:00
Not yet? Okay.
David Weissman 46:02
Maybe someday.
Maria Ross 46:03
Awesome. Awesome. Well, that’s, that’s great that, that that’s just such a heartwarming story about how how just an empathetic conversation can have such a huge impact, so.
David Weissman 46:14
Yeah. And I think I’m sorry to interrupt you. But I think I know the one who was kind of confused with my training. It’s, she didn’t she isn’t cheating and hurt me to.
Maria Ross 46:25
No. Yeah, she just was like a spark. Right?
David Weissman 46:28
Yeah, I have some great last minute.
Maria Ross 46:31
Absolutely, like to spark because it sounds like she sparked your curiosity to learn more, which is awesome and I love that. All right. Well, David, thank you so much. I’m gonna put links to a few of the articles you’ve written as well as all the things we talked about in our in our conversation today. You know, folks can obviously what’s your Twitter handle? We’re gonna have it in the show notes. But tell folks what your Twitter handle is?
David Weissman 46:56
Sure. It is @David M. Weissman. W-E-I-S-S-M-A-N.
Maria Ross 47:02
Great. So, follow David on Twitter. He’s got great, insightful, compassionate, and thought-provoking tweets on there. And I really enjoy following him and it’s just been such a great joy to talk to you. One on One like this after following you on your journey for so long. Thank you for being here. Harris nation. Thank you for having me. And thank you everyone for listening to another episode of the empathy edge podcast. Please share it with friends, colleagues, anyone you think might be interested. And please don’t forget to rate and review it and let me know your thoughts. You can also DM me at Red slice Maria on Instagram or at Red slice on Twitter. And until next time, remember that cash flow creativity and compassion are not mutually exclusive. Take care and be kind.
