Leaders are being asked to be more emotionally aware and embrace emotions at work. But how to do that in ways that are appropriate and comfortable for everyone? Gone are the days when we separated work and life and we now realize that we can’t bring our whole selves to work without acknowledging our humanity. That can mean messy, uncomfortable emotions – and if you as a leader have not shored up your own emotional awareness, you may struggle. Nowhere is this more deeply felt than when having to conduct layoffs.
Today, my guest, Daina Middleton, discusses how you can get comfortable embracing emotions at work and building rapport – yes, even if you’re an introvert. Daina shares her own C-suite story about her journey of learning to be aware of and embrace her own emotions to create more success at work and better relationships at home. Daina offers powerful and timely tips on approaching layoffs with empathy and intention, and ensuring you don’t ignore those left behind. We talk about why last-hired/first-fired thinking can destroy your DEI progress and designing severance packages that are more inclusive and compassionate.
To access this episode transcript, please scroll down below.
Key Takeaways:
- We are all human. We all have emotions and feelings. At the end of the day, if you want to enhance productivity, you need to make sure people can bring their whole selves to work.
- Listening is the most important thing you can do. Let the blank space be blank space, you do not need to fill it with your own story.
- Know when empathy and information should come from the leadership team, not just HR, legal, or middle management.
“If you truly want to propel and move the organization forward, you need to allow people to go through the grieving steps.” — Daina Middleton
References Mentioned:
The Empathy Edge Podcast: Lisen Stromberg: What Modern Leaders and Cultures Need to Succeed in the 21st CenturyHarvard Business Review, “Don’t Let Layoffs Undermine Your DEI Efforts”Daina’s book: Grace Meets Grit: How to Bring Out the Remarkable, Courageous Leader WithinA great article on Prismwork’s site on human-centered layoffs.About Daina Middleton, Co-Founder and Chief Strategy Officer, Prismwork
Daina Middleton is a former CEO and CMO, and current board member and advisor, strategy consultant, and growth architect with expertise in growing technology and services organizations. She has successfully grown and exited several marketing services businesses. Her success is fueled by focusing on creating market categories, driving thought leadership through partnerships and experiences, cultivating company culture, and executing operational excellence. Believing culture is the competitive advantage, Daina is currently creating culture transformations, inclusive leadership, and company purpose-driven strategies for businesses that wish to create better outcomes for all stakeholders.
Connect with Daina Middleton:
Prismwork: http://www.prismwork.com
Website: https://dainamiddleton.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dainamiddleton/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/dainamiddleton
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FULL TRANSCRIPT BELOW:
Welcome to the empathy edge podcast the show that proves why cash flow, creativity and compassion are not mutually exclusive. I’m your host, Maria Ross. I’m a speaker, author, mom, facilitator and empathy advocate. And here you’ll meet trailblazing leaders and executives, authors and experts who embrace empathy to achieve radical success. We discuss all facets of empathy from trends and research to the future of work, to how to heal societal divisions and collaborate more effectively. Our goal is to redefine success and prove that empathy isn’t just good for society, it’s great for business.
Leaders are being asked to be more emotionally aware and embrace emotions at work, but how to do that in ways that are appropriate and comfortable for everyone. Gone are the days when we separated work and life and we are now realizing that we can’t bring our whole selves to work without acknowledging our humanity. That can mean messy, uncomfortable emotions. And if you as a leader have not shored up your own emotional awareness, you may struggle. Nowhere is this more deeply felt than when you’re having to conduct layoffs. Yet many leaders are trying to act like they have it all together or be robotic and delivering the news for worse center themselves in the narrative. Today, my guest is Dana Middleton, co founder and chief strategy officer of prism work, a consulting firm dedicated to culture transformations, inclusive leadership, and company purpose driven strategies for businesses who wish to create better outcomes for all stakeholders. We discuss how you as a leader can get comfortable embracing emotions at work, and building rapport. Yes, even if you’re an introvert. Dana shares her own C suite story and learning how to be aware of and embrace her own emotions to create more success at work and better relationships at home. Dana offers powerful and Timely Tips on how to approach layoffs with empathy and intention, and how to ensure you don’t ignore those left behind. We talked about why last hired first fired thinking can destroy your dei progress, and how to design severance packages that are more inclusive and compassionate. This topic could not be more timely, unfortunately. I hope you love it. Hello, Dana, welcome to the empathy edge podcast. We’re so excited to have you.
Daina Middleton 03:01
Thank you so much for having me. Maria, I’m delighted to be here. Well, I am
Maria Ross 03:05
excited to get into this conversation about how to embrace emotions at work, and specifically how to conduct layoffs in a inclusive and respectful and compassionate way. There’s so many great ideas you have for leaders, and I can’t wait for you to share some of that, especially given the current market. We’re in the current climate we’re in I know, this is an issue that many leaders are losing sleep over. So this is going to be a really valuable discussion today. But before we kick that off, tell us a little bit about your work with prism work, and how you got to this work around culture and purpose and bringing more emotions into the workplace.
03:47
Sure, I’d be happy to it is interesting. We all have winding paths in our past background. And I certainly started out in the marketing and advertising space spent over 30 years there have worn the CEO hats. I even worked at Twitter for a stint. And certainly don’t have the HR background as you would expect for someone to really dive into this space. But I think when I wrote my first book, which is called Grace meets grit, which is really about or actually aggressed me to quit as my second book. What am I saying is about leadership differences and in behavior, specific things like how different men make decisions versus women. And we don’t talk about these subtleties in the workplace, yet they have ripple impacts. So I think my interest about that had been boiling for some time. And then probably the real reckoning came, which is really where Leeson and I started working together before prism work was even prism work was when I was laid off. I was actually fired from a CEO role in the advertising space. And I did a bunch of self reflection to really think about what worked well. In my engagement there, what didn’t. And at the same time, I nearly lost my, what my marriage. So my relationship really took a hit. And so what I understood was that I had begin suppressing my emotions, not just at work, but even in the home. And that had caused a lot of trauma in so many places. And in doing so I had actually lost the things that make me good at work. And so as a CEO, I got to thinking about how often do we talk to employees about emotions in the workplace, and what’s allowed, what isn’t, what’s good, what’s not how to be accountable, because this is an emotional free for all that we’re talking about. So, you know, that I think, led me to where I am today, which is how do we create workplaces where everyone feels a sense of belonging, and you cannot create a sense of belonging unless you truly understand your own emotions, and are able to connect with the emotions of others. And so that’s really our mission at a prism work is to really power leaders with the right skills, the right thinking, the right frameworks in order to do that, and make them more successful because modern leaders have the skills they’re highly desired. And so that’s a little bit about my background, and why I do what I do.
Maria Ross 06:24
Well, I love this. And, you know, we’ll put a link in the show notes to Leeson Stromberg interview about the skills needed to be a 21st century leader to be a successful 21st century leader. And a lot of it is around empathy and inclusion and just general respect for people as people. And what you mentioned there that was so engaging to me, was this idea of like creating these cultures where people can be themselves at work. And I know, you know, in my 20s, as a Gen Xer, I subscribe to the whole, you know, you leave your emotions at the door, and you’re this different person at work. And you’re this different persona. And that’s what many leaders today grew up with, as well. And now the rules have changed. And not that we’re all crying on the floor with our employees every day, we’re actually getting work done and having expectations and setting boundaries, like you said, what within reason, what people are comfortable with. But we have this acknowledgment now that you do not park your humanity at the door, when you come to work every day. And whatever is happening to you in your personal life in your world, in society at large that impacts your particular group. You’re bringing that to work. And we need to have just a recognition of that and just, you know, we can still expect excellence, we can still set boundaries, we can still avoid burnout. We don’t have to take on everybody’s problems and everyone’s challenges. But do we need to work together in a different way now. And that’s what’s so exciting about the work you’re doing at prison work? What’s drawn me to this work from marketing and advertising as well, I might add. And so you know, it’s really just about I think marketers are drawn to understanding people. And I think that’s why there’s a lot of marketers that criss cross in these spaces. So that is just wonderful. So so when we talk a little bit about how to embrace emotions at work, I think that’s the million dollar question for maybe leaders where it doesn’t come naturally to be able to navigate what’s appropriate, what’s not, am I being too intrusive? And you know, am I not being? Am I going to be seen as weak? Do you have any general guidelines for what leaders can do to start embracing more emotion at work and start getting comfortable with it?
08:40
I can, and actually, I have a webinar about this called awakened at work. And it actually is teaching the science of rapport. It’s how do you connect with someone? The reason I went and did this is I learned I’m not very good at it, I think, partly because I’m an introvert. And so I’m not that naturally gregarious person who connects instantly with others. And obviously, even if you are there are people that you connect more rapidly with, and people you don’t so awakened, really talks about how much eye contact should you have? How much should you talk to someone versus Listen, use someone’s name, connect on a personal level, don’t talk about yourself. I mean, there are a whole bunch of guidelines that actually forged that first connection, that are really important. And then once you have that initial report, then you can dive into things like mirroring. So you’ve probably seen mirroring, I didn’t know much about it until I dove into this space. But if you watch a couple sitting in a coffee shop, and they’re engaging, that kind of looks like a dance to me, so one person is doing one thing with their hands and their expressions when the other person is naturally doing that. We do that naturally as humans and so there are ways to deepen that connection over time. Then obviously The key also here is not to be artificial. So we’ve all had the experience of the used car salesman spend who comes out and tries to connect with you and use all of the skills that I’ve talked about in a very unnatural way without getting agreement and alignment from the other person. And that’s not the goal, either. So I think that at the bottom line is, we’re all human. And at the end of the day, like you, I grew up in an environment where I was really taught that emotions don’t belong in the workplace, and it’s all about productivity. But it is all about productivity. And if you truly want to enhance productivity, then you want to make sure that people can bring their whole selves to work. And that includes how they’re feeling because you want that passion in the workplace, because that’s how you’re going to get the best performance. And so, you know, how do we teach and reach and connect with others at a human level. And I think that’s the most important guideline. But it also means that you have to know where how you feel. And I think also, we’ve taught people not to really understand their own emotions.
Maria Ross 11:11
Well, I think that’s a big piece of it. And you know, in my book, the first step of being an empathetic leader, or habit of being an empathetic leader, was to practice mindfulness, because it’s really about your own self awareness and getting your own house in order first and understanding your own emotions and triggers. Because otherwise, you can’t do that. with other people, you can’t do that in your interactions with other people, there’s too much stuff in the way in your own head. And so that this idea of helping leaders, or you know, if I can be so bold, requiring leaders to be more emotionally aware, that is part of the assignment. Now, that is part of the job. And it’s not because we’re just want everyone to be woowoo and hold hands. But it actually leads to better results, it leads to better performance, it leads to more innovation, it leads to groups of people who feel free enough to create an innovate and deliver. And so there are, you know, that’s the beautiful part of all this, there’s tons of research out there that show that when you’re more emotionally aware, when you’re empathetic, when you’re a good listener, when you’re curious, those lead to good business outcomes. It’s not just fluffy, nice to have stuff
12:24
100% And your mindfulness, I think, is a great insight into as a leader thinking about, again, we’ll go back to decision making, being mindful about communicating to people how you’re going to make a decision and why. So as I reef self reflected back on my own career, I thought, I don’t know that I’d ever really told people, here’s how I’m making the decision. And here’s why and making a decision that’s just applying mindfulness to everyday interactions that ultimately create better outcomes because you have people not just guessing what the outcome will be or what the process will be. And so mindfulness, I think goes a long way in the workplace today.
Maria Ross 13:06
Absolutely. And you know, it’s funny, because there’s two things that strike me about leadership paradigms that we already subscribe to as being successful leadership models. One is, you know, athletic coaches. You know, people often will cite sports analogies and all of this other stuff in terms of like coaches they admire about how they lead a team, they’ll take a ragtag team and turn them into a championship team. But a lot of that is them getting personally and emotionally invested with their players. So we see it playing out in front of us. And yet, in the workplace, in corporate, America, the corporate world, we shy away from that, which I find really an interesting dichotomy that we’re so wanting to follow those inspirational quotes of coaches in the workplace, and yet, we still shy away from that personal connection.
13:58
I do think there’s a tie back to the industrial age here. And, you know, I think we have learned there’s definitely value in applying machine type learning and machine processes to the workplace. But if you see the movement today, to your point, I think going back to much more biological analogies rather than industrial machine type of analogies, it’s really how do we take advantage of both of those things in order to get the best outcomes because a lot of our processes still have those industrial qualities and we’re reluctant I think, in the workplace to let them go, which is to your point, in the athletic world, the first thing an athlete gets is a psychological coach to help them get mentally where they need to go. But yet in the workplace, that’s considered woowoo fluffy stuff that is probably a waste of money, and it’s really interesting.
Maria Ross 14:55
Yeah, yeah. So I want to apply this to a very timely topic. work that we’re all dealing with right now, which is, unfortunately, due to the market. And due to the economy, there have been, there have been massive layoffs and leaders are being faced with, you know, especially on the heels of the pandemic, where workers put up with so much leaders put up with so much they adapted, they pivoted, they worked as teams. And now we’re in the stage where leaders are dealing with a lot of layoffs. And they’re struggling, because they were like, I’ve been trying to be this empathetic, supportive leader. And yet now I’m in a situation where I have to lay people off. And I know I’m impacting their lives. I know it’s for the right business decisions, in many cases, not all cases. But in some cases, it is for the right business decisions. And so they’re left, they’re left bereft, because they’re not sure how to approach this when they want to identify as and what they want their legacy to be, is as an empathetic and supportive leader. So when it comes to layoffs, you wrote, you co wrote a great article for Harvard Business Review that we’re going to link to in the show notes about how to conduct layoffs. And it was more the angle of without blowing up your d i efforts in the process, the efforts that many companies have worked very hard to build up in terms of a function in terms of a mindset, and then all of a sudden, you do layoffs, and there’s there’s ways to do that, that are more human and that are more thoughtful, so that you don’t, you know, burn the ground and burn the place down as you are, you’re having to do this very difficult thing. So can you share some of the tips because, of course, what caught my eye is the first one that said, you know, be empathetic. And so what you found so easy, it sounds so easy. Yeah. But can you tell us a little bit about, you know, approaching a layoff with empathy? And what are some of the things that leaders can think about? What are some of the tips that can make for a more thoughtful, human compassionate, layoff process?
17:04
Sure. And I think I’m one of the struggles that leaders have is that legal is highly involved in telling you what you can and can’t do. And then I also think we have all these productivity tools like the one that we’re using today, zoom, which allows you to efficiently lay a whole bunch of people off, but is that the most human and empathetic approach? And so, you know, I do think the first thing back to what you talked about is really reconciling your own emotions around this and acknowledging them. I think, sometimes as leaders, we expect ourselves kind of like what we do as parents to be superhuman, and not have to be affected by this, and really unpacking that, and being able to be a bit vulnerable about it, and to talk about it not to make it your story that goes back to that connection, but at least be able to relate in a manner that makes it feel real makes it feel human and makes the communication much more effective than just, you know, I’ve heard so many horror stories, as I’m sure a few were outlined in the article. And then so many have happened since that article was written, which is quite a few months ago now. Yeah. About You know, someone just logging on and not being able to get in and thinking it was a technical glitch and still trying to work and, and that person’s manager, not even knowing that that person was impacted, because the less was not published, you know, the legal has run amok, I think in these companies. So the first thing is having at the top, someone who was willing to put empathy and connection for people and to understand this is something that impacts people. And certainly, we can do the things that protect the controls of the company from a legal perspective, without losing our humanity is the very first step in this process. And unfortunately, even for companies like Google, who’s been well known forever to be much more human focused company has really struggled I think, in this with legals I don’t know for sure if legals involvement, but that’s my suspicion anyway, is him What do we do to protect the company instead of really thinking about right human impact? So I think starting with that human connection is the right place to start.
Maria Ross 19:16
Yeah, and I love what you said about not making this your story because I think some of the horror stories we’ve heard in recent in the last year, have been about CEOs making all about their trauma and their pain that they have to do this layoff versus really focusing on the people who are actually impacted. And just, you know, going off the rails with trying, you know, I think there was one CEO who was quoting Martin Luther King during her layoff announcement and equating it to the struggle for civil rights. It just really, really bad decisions that are all about making the leader feel better. And sort of like Please don’t hate me, because I’m doing this this is so hard for me. If that’s not the time for it to be your story and to center yourself in that narrative,
20:05
it’s not about you. And I think also, I was coaching a leader on this, how whitespace is positive space, there’s a need or a feel a need to fill the space. And that’s where I think leaders sometimes get into trouble. You know, okay, so no one’s saying anything that feels highly uncomfortable. So two things, you know, really understanding that listening is the most important thing that you can do. How do you just let whitespace be whitespace? And not fill it with your own story?
Maria Ross 20:33
Right. And by whitespace, we should clarify we mean blank space now. Yeah. Race with racial white?
20:39
Oh, yes. Yeah. Very good point. Just, you know, this, you know, like a white sheet of paper with nothing on it was where I was coming from, right. And then, and then absolutely, getting comfortable feeling uncomfortable. I honestly think that’s also a key skill for leaders these days is that we’re all really in unchartered territory. And we need to really get comfortable thinking that we’re not always going to feel comfortable. And that’s okay. And that’s a hard one, I think, for many leaders to really even contemplate.
Maria Ross 21:14
Well, I think, again, it’s that old school thinking that if I’m the leader, I have to have all the answers. And I can’t admit, I don’t know, or I, I don’t know where we’ll go from here. I don’t know if there’s going to be more layoffs after this one. We there’s a tendency to want to come up with all the right answers. And you can, you can admit you don’t know in a confident way, you shouldn’t be vulnerable in a confident way where people don’t think, you know, the world is falling apart, because you’re falling apart as a leader. But it’s perfectly okay to admit that you don’t have all the answers. But you will work towards getting solutions and getting answers for people because you understand they need answers to move forward. I want to talk about also, you know, the crux of the article was all around, you know, making sure you don’t making sure you factor in inclusion and diversity, even in your layoff decisions and processes. But also make sure you don’t blow up any progress you’ve made with D IB, diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging. And there was a quote in the article that I really loved, which was, which said, savvy companies need to embed dei into every stage of the employee lifecycle, including separations. So when we talk about tips for, you know, doing these layoffs are five ways. And you know, any number of ways for leaders and companies to establish layoff practices that are rooted in inclusion and belonging. The first one, the big one is approaching with empathy. But I also want to talk about one that was very intriguing to me, which was making sure we’re designing severance packages. With inclusion in mind. Can you talk a little bit about that?
22:50
Sure. I think we tend to do a one size fits all approach to severance packages. And that might not be what is really needed. So really understanding where your employees are and meeting them where they are. They, you know, actually providing a certain level of severance for so many months served is a great example of that, where as or, you know, firing, the people that were last in are the first out, you know, we tend to think about these decisions and not think about Gee, someone may need to provide childcare or can’t respond that quickly. And they’ve only been here a month. So what do I do? And so, again, we’re applying these almost like peanut butter, rather than really unpacking it and thinking about, you know, what are these employees? Who are they what do they actually need? And how are we going to actually help them through this process in a way that’s meaningful and provide them with the tools and our resources to actually make that bridge occur?
Maria Ross 23:54
Well, and I also love that you made the point of offering severance packages to employees whom you’ve extended offers to, and now those offers have been rescinded because they are impacted because they’ve already left jobs. Right. So
24:06
often, that’s not even considered, right. Again, it’s back to legalise saying, We have no obligation, right to do something like this. So I think again, asking yourself, Is this about legal obligations? Or is this about doing the right thing? Because this is the real hardship that these employees or potential employees are actually facing.
Maria Ross 24:29
Right. And you mentioned in the article, an example of Airbnb, which offered a base package of 14 weeks to all terminated employees and then added one additional week for every year of service when they started downsizing, so that’s very, very generous, and that that could be someone who’s been there a week than their month. Right. So I also think, you know, as a, you know, leaving my brand strategy work behind but as a brand strategist that says something about your company and your culture and your brand. that’s going to be useful to you in the future when you need to hire back up again.
25:05
Absolutely 100%. And I think that’s one of the things that these companies aren’t necessarily thinking about. Like said, you know, lack of transparency, that some companies not publishing who the individuals that are affected, but then individuals actually creating transparency by creating open Google Sheets where everyone can see them. Right. And so yes, these will have long lasting impacts around their ability to recruit and retain employees. Absolutely.
Maria Ross 25:35
And, you know, speaking of the, you know, not having to hire, you know, do the blanket, elimination of jobs, but being more thoughtful about it. Another thing mentioned in the article that, especially if a company has ramped up DEI efforts in recent years, that unfortunately, if you follow a last hired first fired policy, you’re likely to disproportionately impact women and people of color. So can you talk about that a little bit
26:02
100%. So a lot of those individuals that were recently since George Floyd brought on, if that that was philosophy, those were the first to go as we’re contractors. So we have a disproportionate amount of contractors who actually are diverse candidates, who also were impacted by these layoffs. And again, not having that lens, and oftentimes, it isn’t an ill intended lens, right, the actual strategy may be Gee, I’m gonna say, go to each individual and say, you have to come up with two employees in your group. But if you look at those numbers in aggregate, and you start to unpack it, then you start to see some of those discrepancies. And so being able to have the time in your approach and process to be able to look at it with different lenses, I think, is also really important, because I’m not going to say that, you know, the, it was the intent of every company to actually eliminate their de IB efforts. But certainly a consequence of not putting those lenses into place this occurred.
Maria Ross 27:03
Absolutely. And I think it’s like you said, not always a bad intention, because people think they’re being fair.
27:08
Right? Right. Or they want to push down the decision making to the individual groups and empower their leaders, or that there’s any number of reasons to where you can get too into one of those situations, but certainly being able to back up and look at it and say, Gee, gosh, this was our intent. But this is actually what happened.
Maria Ross 27:27
And I want to talk about another thing you brought up in the article, which is not, don’t forget your survivors, I think this is one that is very much something that’s an afterthought. Because you have to realize how traumatized those people are when they’re left, and they don’t know when the other shoe will drop. And they’re living in fear. And they may have just lost really close colleagues, or their friends at work, or people that they relied on to complete their own projects are now gone, and it’s made their lives harder. So how can we make sure we’re taking care of the survivors? What are some, some tips or things to think about for leaders in terms of that?
28:08
It’s so true. And How often have I heard why should you be worried you you’re still here? Right? Right. It’s exactly what you’re talking about. And I think, first, again, being human acknowledging that there is trauma and loss with losing teammates, even if they weren’t involved in your own projects, and then taking accountability and understanding for even workload situation. So yes, in many cases, they’re tightening the belt. And all of those survivors are now wearing two or three or four different hats. So what are you doing to actually prioritize the work and taking accountability and acknowledgement for the fact that we can’t produce as much as we did in the past, or we’re going to do this differently, or I’m going to help come alongside you to make some of these decisions. Because there is, I think, a tendency, especially for leaders who have felt so much trauma in the process, they want to move on, they’re ready to move on, because they don’t want to feel that anymore. So again, in their self interest thinking about this, they’re not thinking about necessarily the people who haven’t been through this need some time. The grief a circle applies here, right? It’s going to take time for your people to get past the trauma that they’ve actually experienced. And how do you help them work toward that positive outcome? And the more you force it to the end, and skip all of those steps they need to in the grieving process, the more backward, you’re going to go. And I believe that’s the key to remember if you truly want to propel and move the organization forward, you need to acknowledge and allow people to go through those grieving steps.
Maria Ross 29:43
Right, right. And you know, it could be just a lot of listening. It could be you know, someone’s one to one turns into them talking about how angry they are about everything going on or how scared they are. And that’s okay, that’s still the work of being a leader. That’s not detracting from the work. That is the work.
30:03
It is 100%, like I mentioned, it may be the process may be, you are required to go through the steps as painful and as uncomfortable as many of those steps may need to be, you’re not going to get to the other side without that. And so again, I think the other thing that he senior leaders can do is equip their middle managers for this, and so often that the middle managers are the ones that get pinched repeatedly, right, they’re pinched from the top, and they’re pinched from the bottom. And how do we provide them with the skills, the support the guidance that they need in order to help people through that process? Usually, we provide them with nothing? Rachel, also, it’s not a good answer. What
Maria Ross 30:45
are some ways that you’ve heard of companies providing that support, so we can give folks just some things to get their their ideas flowing of the types of things they can do to provide that support?
30:55
at a bare minimum? It’s a q&a. That’s, you know, some information, if you get asked this question, here’s the answer that you can provide. But a company who’s really thinking about it much more holistically, may actually guide people to here’s how often we think you should meet with your team. Here are the topics that we think you should actually talk about with your team. Here’s some support in that here are individual support, if you’re struggling yourself, that almost never happens. It’s a falls on the weight of HR, often to do add an HR isn’t necessarily equipped to do that either. It’s better I think, if it comes from a senior leader in the organization who’s willing to help these leaders, take the next step and move forward and allow them to even event and go through their own level of grieving process. So again, it’s back to that intentionality that you talked about that mindfulness, how do we provide mindfulness for those middle level managers where we actually have a complete package and process that we can evolve and adapt, depending on actually what happens in that circumstance?
Maria Ross 32:07
Well, that’s why I love doing, you know, what I’m brought in even just as part of leadership and development or executive leadership training, to come in and do workshops on strengthening empathy, because I love being able to proactively be helping them build that muscle before they need it. And so are so you know, those are the current rate estimates. Yeah, those are the kinds of investments and it could be about bringing in mindfulness training, it could be about bringing in empathy training, it could be about bringing in folks to talk about the grief cycle event, and just really educating and arming those leaders with the tools and the skill sets they need. Maybe before it even happens, but especially after it does
32:51
100%, and even hiring the right individuals who have those skills to begin with. Exactly right,
Maria Ross 32:56
exactly. Yeah, looking for that and hiring for that emotional regulation, that emotional awareness and that ability to listen and that ability to be curious and dissenter yourself from the narrative when things get tough.
33:11
So those being comfortable with that. Yeah, cuz that isn’t necessarily a skill. I think that we think about when we’re hiring.
Maria Ross 33:19
We don’t and it’s, it’s what’s needed in today’s leadership. It’s what’s being demanded. And just like, just like work has evolved, just like industry has evolved, leadership has evolved. And I often talk about the fact that the old models of leadership were not laws of physics. We invented them, we can change them. Yes. 100%. Yeah. So Dana, thank you so much for this conversation, I think it’s going to be super useful to a lot of leaders going through this right now. I’ll have all your links in the show notes. I’d also love to put a link to your book, and of the webinar, you mentioned in the show notes for folks that are interested. But for folks who are listening to us while they’re jogging, weirs, just a quick place that they can find out more about you and your work.
34:03
Sure, LinkedIn is probably the best link I used to be much more of a Twitter person. But in recent times, that’s no longer the case. I am still on Twitter, but not nearly as active and I certainly have ramped up my LinkedIn presence. I’m also on post news. So you can find me there as well.
Maria Ross 34:20
Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for your insights today and for spending time with us. Thank you so much, Grant. This was delightful. And thank you everyone for listening to another episode of the empathy edge podcast. If you like what you heard and you’re enjoying the episodes you know what to do, please rate and review on your podcast player of choice, and share the episode with a colleague or a friend. Until next time, please remember that cash flow creativity and compassion are not mutually exclusive. Take care and be kind.
For more on how to achieve radical success through empathy, visit the empathy edge.com. There you can listen to past episodes, access shownotes and free resources. Book me for a Keynote or workshop and sign up for our email list to get new episodes, insights, news and events. Please follow me on Instagram at Red slice Maria. Never forget empathy is your superpower. Use it to make your work and the world a better place.
