So much of our inability to connect in the workplace comes down to creating an Us vs. Them mentality when it comes to different generations. Research shows that we have five generations all coexisting in the workplace – so we need to sort this out. Such misunderstandings turn off our empathy and cause us to underperform, feel resentful, or blame others.
Today, you are in for a powerful lesson in Generational Codes. – what they are, why they matter, and how you can leverage them to build bridges with different people. My guest is Anna Liotta, a keynote speaker, leadership facilitator, and generational strategist. We talk about what generational CODES mean (hint: it’s an acronym) and you’ll have so many a-ha moments about why different generations do what they do, how they communicate, and what motivates them. We discuss why you may think certain generations are “entitled” or”authoritarian” and why neither is right or wrong. We explore certain phrases that cause particular friction, such as work ethic and respect. You’ll discover strategies for communicating better across this generational divide – and leave with a better understanding of each other. This episode is a must-listen for anyone of any age in the workplace who wants to collaborate more effectively for great results.
To access this episode transcript, please scroll down below.
Key Takeaways:
- Common sense is not a common thought – it always taps back to someone’s own generational code and how that code was formed in their formative years. This will change from generation to generation.
- Traditionalist leadership, as a model, came from the military and straight into corporate America. It has created a language that is fight-or-flight, trauma lead leadership. But that is not the only way of leading – younger generations want to be part of the answer and the creation of their corporation.
- Conversation and curiosity are the most important keys to understanding the generational codes of each generation and how those can assist the individuals of your organization.
“A Generational Code is an algorithm that is running in the background, always informing our actions and reactions about who we trust, what we believe is our right when it comes to how leaders should treat us with empathy or not, who we follow, and who we buy from.” – Anna Liotta
About Anna Liotta, CEO, Keynote Speaker, and Generational Strategist, Resultance, Inc.
Anna is recognized as a top thought leader on generational success — with a client list that includes Amazon, Bloomberg, Coca-Cola, Microsoft, the PGA, and the NBA.
She is the founder of The Generational Institute™ and is the author of the bestseller, Unlocking Generational CODES©, and in 2021 was inducted into the Speaker Hall of Fame.
Anna’s most impressive generational credential? She is the youngest girl of nineteen children. This means that every Thanksgiving, graduation, and wedding is a case study in generational communication.
Connect with Anna Liotta:
Resultance, Inc: https://annaliotta.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annaliotta/
Book: Unlocking Generational CODES: Understanding What Makes Generations Tick and What Ticks Them Off
Don’t forget to download your free guide! Discover The 5 Business Benefits of Empathy: http://red-slice.com/business-benefits-empathy
Connect with Maria:
Get the podcast and book: TheEmpathyEdge.com
Learn more about Maria and her work: Red-Slice.com
Hire Maria to speak at your next event: Red-Slice.com/Speaker-Maria-Ross
Take my LinkedIn Learning Course! Leading with Empathy
LinkedIn: Maria Ross
Instagram: @redslicemaria
Twitter: @redslice
Facebook: Red Slice
FULL TRANSCRIPT BELOW:
Welcome to the empathy edge podcast, the show that proves why cashflow, creativity and compassion are not mutually exclusive. I’m your host Maria Ross. I’m a speaker, author, mom, facilitator and empathy advocate. And here you’ll meet trailblazing leaders and executives, authors and experts who embrace empathy to achieve radical success. We discuss all facets of empathy from trends and research to the future of work to how to heal societal divisions and collaborate more effectively. Our goal is to redefine success and prove that empathy isn’t just good for society. It’s great for business. Those millennials, whose boomers and oh my gosh, what is up with Gen Z. So much of our inability to connect in the workplace and in life comes down to creating an us versus them mentality when it comes to different generations. Research shows that we have five generations all coexisting in the workplace. So we need to sort this out. Such misunderstandings turn off our empathy and cause us to underperform. feel resentful, or blame others. Today, you are in for a power lesson in generational codes, what they are, why they matter and how you can leverage them to build bridges with different people. My guest is Ana Lyanna, keynote speaker, leadership facilitator and generational strategist, Ana is recognized as a top thought leader on generational success with a client list that includes Amazon, Bloomberg, Coca Cola, Microsoft, the PGA and the NBA. She is the founder of the generational Institute and the author of The Best Seller unlocking generational codes. A book I cannot more highly recommend. On his most impressive generational credential. She is the youngest girl of 19 children. Yes, 19. This means that every Thanksgiving graduation and wedding is a case study in generational communication. Today we talk about what generational codes mean, hint, it’s an acronym. And you’ll have so many aha moments about why different generations do what they do, how they communicate, and what motivates them. We discuss why you may think certain generations are quote entitled or authoritarian, and why neither is right or wrong. We explore certain phrases that cause particular friction, such as work ethic, and respect. You’ll discover strategies for communicating better across this generational divide. And leave with a better understanding for each other empathy on a silver platter packet might even help you understand your kids better. This episode is a must listen for anyone at any age in the workplace, who wants to collaborate more effectively for great results? Take a listen. Anna, welcome to the empathy edge podcast. I have been looking forward to having this conversation with you about generational codes for a while and I know this is something so top of mind, for my listeners, for my clients, for leaders that I’ve come in contact with. So thank you for being here today.
Anna Liotta 04:16
It’s my deep pleasure. Thank you for inviting me.
Maria Ross 04:20
So tell us a little bit about you know, we’ve read your bio, but tell us a little bit about how you got into this work. Just briefly share your story.
Anna Liotta 04:29
You know, it is something that I have to say was organic. I am one of 19 children as you shared. And so surviving as sixth generation household was just part of, you know, my early training, you know, building the muscles doing the reps, but I really have to say it was in my undergrad I wrote my honors thesis on generations. And there had been a moment in my second year of college where I was in an organizational development class. And there was A video that was by a Canadian social scientist. And it was called what you are now is where you were when. And the core premise was when you’re 10 years old, something happens that fundamentally changes the way you see the world. And I remember thinking, What happened to my dad, when he was 10 years old. Now, my dad would be 103 years old this year. So he was three generations older than me. So there was already this gap of me trying to figure out, you know, how he saw the world. And at that moment, I realized that when he was 10, it’s a great depression. He was living in an orphanage, and he got pushed back out onto the streets, because anybody that had family whatsoever, was no longer allowed to be in the orphanage, not enough resources, Great Depression. And he found out at 10 years old that he had aunts and uncles and grandparents that were alive. And it made me think about this moment when I was 16. And I was having a conversation. Well, that’s a polite way to say it, I was crying nose, you know, it’s not running out of my nose, tears down the eyes, salty as heck. And I said to him, why can’t you just say you love me. And he said, I put a roof over your head, I put clothing on your back, and I put food on your table. That is, I love you. And now I was in this moment of thinking of him at 10 years old, having this like, Aha, about, wow, that was like he meant it. Right? And so then I started thinking about other choices, I’m gonna say, I’m putting air quotes around that, that he made as a parent. And I was thinking, how was that shaped by that? And so that was really the beginning of my inquiry, my search to say, well, if I could understand this, and his world, how would that change our relationship, which at that point in college was a little bit more intense than I wanted it to be, quite frankly. And so that was the beginning of my study, and looking at and, you know, beginning to understand from knowledge studies that about age seven, our brain starts to make logic, and between the ages of eight to 18, and really all the way up to 25. We’re watching the world around us, we’re watching the leaders, we’re watching the events, we’re watching the icons. And when there’s an event and it’s paired with an emotion, it creates an imprint, the higher the emotion, the deeper that imprint, and all together that starts to put together what I call a generational code. Or you could say an algorithm that is running in the background, always informing our actions and our reactions about who we trust, what we believe is our right when it comes to how leaders should treat us with empathy or not, who we follow who we buy from. And so the opportunity to help people understand what is that generational code that got shaped in those formative years, pulling it forward, and inviting them to examine it, and oftentimes update it because I say, generational code, but what I want people to understand it is an algorithm, it is not ransomware they can update it, they can elevate it, that it can really make a difference in it, but it takes some doing. And that’s sometimes why people default back to being collective those and insert generation that they currently are frustrated with. Right,
Maria Ross 08:33
right. And, you know, we see this playing out in the workplace, you’ve talked about this, I’ve seen the data around the fact that we’ve got five generations coexisting in the workplace now. And so of course, there’s going to be that friction. And it’s not about stereotyping individuals, but it is about sort of understanding, you know, just like empathy is understanding the context, so that you can understand where people are coming from. And I just find this to be a really useful tool. Now, the biggest thing you hear these days, right is from the conflict of not understanding the younger generations, younger millennials, Gen Z, who you refer to in your wonderful book, as neck stirs. There’s this mystique around, we just don’t understand how they operate. Why don’t they get, quote, unquote, professionalism? Why don’t they understand work ethic? You know, why is it so hard? Why do they want to be coddled or baby? These are the things that I hear from leaders. And for a long time, especially when my book first came out. I was in talks, telling seasoned leaders like Gen Z is demanding things that are totally reasonable and valid and good on them because the rising was at the rising tide lifts all ships. They’re trying to create a workplace where people are seen heard and valued, that’s not a bad thing. Now you might have issue with how they’re going about it. But that doesn’t mean just because they’re demanding respect in the place where they spend the bulk of their time. Time doesn’t mean that they are not hardworking doesn’t mean that they’re not loyal doesn’t mean that they don’t want to make a difference. So let’s back up a bit before we talk specifically about different generations. And can you explain the concept of generational codes, codes being an acronym? And you’ve alluded to a little bit of it in your introduction, but tell us how they work and what are they?
Anna Liotta 10:25
And so one thing I want to say, because that was such a great example that you went through so many nuances just even in the question, common sense is not common. People think, well, this is just good, common sense. And in that moment, they’re referencing back to their own code around how they saw the world and how the world was tapping them together, and the events and all of those things, those values, those attitudes, as motivators, the beliefs that happened during that formative time. So, as leaders, we actually have to be far more explicit about our expectations, and our what we want to say that’s good work product. And that’s good work performance, rather than thinking implicitly that the younger generation or the older generation, either way, their way Yeah, with an expectation that it’s just good common sense. And we do not have the same common reference points. So we always have to be thinking about our metaphors. Our examples, our reference points, that we’re using our jargon are shorthand to say, oh, it’s shorthand right there. That’s actually a term, right. Right, is something that doesn’t isn’t as common anymore. So we have to be making sure that we’re creating a mix of those different examples to actually be relevant and resonant in the moment. Because as you said, context is decisive. And so we have to understand what is the context of the person that I’m speaking to? Yeah, whether they’re more seasoned, or older, or they’re younger and greener than us in the position. And so I think that’s the really critical thing that people have to be understanding is there’s no one generation. That’s right. And other generations, that’s wrong. There are things that are baby boomers dreamed of, like work life balance, having a boss who was kind to me, right, or who was employed, but it was a dream for baby boomers, because there was 80 million of them competing with each other. And then our Gen Xers desired, but there was only 44 million, we just come through a recession, the work pool was full of both men and women, baby boomers, so Gen Xers had to like, buckle down, get on with it. And yes, they were also that generation of latchkey kids that were very under protected. And so there was very little protection for them as a child. And there was also very little protection for them as they entered the workplace. And then our millennials, actually absolutely demanded it. So our baby boomers dreamed of it, our Gen Xers desired it, but our millennials demanded it. And now our Gen Z know they deserve it. Because their Gen X or parents were very careful to support them to develop their agency to know their rights to know that they were, you know, had the right not to be bullied in school. So now they come into the workplace, and they see behaviors that would not be tolerated, in their educational background, what you know, whether it was grade school, high school, college or beyond, and they’re seeing those behaviors in the workplace. And they very quickly will call them out because they were told that they deserved something different. So when we’re thinking about the code, we have to think about how we communicate the C, what is our communication behavior? Like? What are our expectations of communication? Oh, the orientation, what is our orientation? How do we see the world and each one of the letters has a whole different aspect to it, that surrounds the thing, I won’t go through the whole book here, but it’s around what we’re doing, ie for the environment, S for success, and D for discipline. So it’s really important that we understand common sense is not common, we have to get curious, rather than getting Nmap. And I
Maria Ross 14:34
love that you say that because curiosity is the number one trait of empathic people, but also in the work I’m doing now and working on my new book, clarity is one of the pillars of being an empathetic leader and clarity is you are being clear I just had this conversation with someone the other day, but also that the receiver is understanding what you’re saying. So if the receiver is not taking it in If no matter how clear you think you’re being, it’s still your responsibility as the communicator to clarify that. And how do you clarify expectations, performance, model behavior to your team in terms of like, here’s our rules of engagement, here are our norms. And not just what’s in your job description. But here’s how we’re going to interact with each other, instead of just assuming, you know what being professional means, or you know, what work ethic means. So, can we talk a little bit about that? What are some of those hot button terms that you see coming up over and over again, that cause that friction between generations? Maybe one or two examples
Anna Liotta 15:42
are it’s wonderful, wonderful point, you’re making clarity. When it comes to clarity. We also have to know what was driving the bus, what we believe to be clarity. So let’s talk about work ethic. This is a term that people love to get hot under the collar about, right? Because they say, well, they by the way, the moment you say you’ve othered, right, you have made a friction between the two of you. And now there’s you against something. So that’s one of the things for leaders to watch for is did I thy them, and make them my enemy, right? They have no work ethic. So going back to your point about clarity, for our baby boomers, they had one of the worst relationships with their parents of any generation. It was not all sunshine and rainbows between baby boomers and traditionalists and gi generation. So our baby boomers found their sense of self in the workplace. And it looked like workaholics, it looked like working and saying it was being competitive, right? That they were going to work, not just 40, not 50, not 60, not 70, but 80 hour work weeks. And that became quote, unquote, work ethic. They weren’t like a badge of honor. They you know, work on their arm proudly like stripes. And that became that, quote, unquote, standard is I would say, Well, I work this many hours this week, and we would compete on who was sacrificing their health on the altar of work more. So this is one of the big challenges we have right now. When the pandemic started, we saw this huge, great resignation, correct. We saw all of these baby boomers that by the way, had stayed in the workplace 12 years beyond the quote unquote, retirement age, but they were never going to retire because, you know, retirement sounded like it was for old people and our baby boomers saw themselves as the Forever Young generation. So they retired. And it’s taking two to three people to replace them, because they had a work a Holic addiction to their identity being fulfilled through work. So we see in health care, it takes two, three, sometimes for people to replace an 80 Hour Work Week, Doc, who was not putting their health or balance in place. So now you come to Agenzia, or a young millennial coming into that position. And people get really angry, because they say, Well, you just have no work ethic. And they’re saying, Wait, I am doing 40 hours, I’m doing everything in my job description. And yet, you’re angry at me that I’m not working hours that I’m not paid for, or I’m not counted or that kind of thing. And this is where we get into that really big friction point. Because in our clarity around work ethic is staying till the job’s done. Right. We haven’t actually said that. In our interviews. We haven’t said that in our weekly check ins, if we have weekly check ins, which we’ll talk about, you know, some of the solutions that we need to have. So that’s a really big one, right? There is work ethic comes up all the time. Where is that term being driven from? What’s behind it, we have to actually look where is there actually an addiction. The other thing that people will say is they just don’t have any respect for me, right? Yes. really angry when somebody speaks up and speaks back and, you know, questions, authority, questions, authority, right. And you know, love, you know, with all I’m doing a little hard over my heart here, with great love to our baby boomers, they were the original question of authority. People are
Maria Ross 19:32
totally what was it don’t trust anyone under 30? That’s
Anna Liotta 19:37
30. And as far as they’re concerned, they’re still about 29 years old at heart. It’s very difficult for them to realize that they’re not. And I get that and you know, you never feel as old as you are really. But that respect is something that we definitely I mean, all you have to do is watch movies or sitcoms and you see young people popping off if you know it’d be the old term right there. popping back people and they’re questioning things. And so people get really frustrated with respect. But we have to think about are we expecting them to, you know, in the some of the very popular parlance right now that people are talking about is, when people are in the workplace being led, they have a higher expectation of being led in a trauma informed leadership style. So that when I’m doing something that I expect to frighten you into performing or to shame you into performing, which was absolutely normal for our traditionalist normal for our baby boomers, normal for Gen Xers, they didn’t like it, but they were like, I understand what you’re doing. And I’m going to have to, you know, buckle down to this because I don’t have the either mass numbers in the workplace or there’s, you know, I’m just grinding it through. But our millennials and Gen Z are like, listen, fight, flight, freeze, and fawn, I’m not going to perform inside of those different spaces all the time, I’m going to speak up and say something, and we can get people really frustrated when they say, and this is how I invite them to think about it. If you were talking to your kid, if they came home, and explained how the boss manager spoke to them, what would you say to them in that moment? Would you say that is unacceptable? You do not deserve to be spoken to that way? Do you know how incredible you are valuable you are? When you coach them to speak up? And if they don’t get the response? They want flee? Leave, you know, the organization? Or would you say, well, that’s just the way it is honey, you know, bosses are jerks, and you got to buckle down. So it’s a very interesting time. Now, on the flip side of that, we absolutely need to contextualize for our Gen Z’s and our millennials, what came before such that they can have empathy going the other way, as well. So one of the reasons that I always approach any of my keynotes are my strategic advising consulting from a full generational compliment, is because it is in context, in contrast to each other’s experience, that we can have the most empathy, I have to understand what you experienced, to make you human to me, rather than a vague or othered. To me.
Maria Ross 22:28
Well, and so many things in there. I mean, this is just such good stuff. And this is, again, the friction points I hear over and over again as well, especially in context of trying to remain an empathetic leader, but hold boundaries, set expectations and avoid burnout, quite frankly. What do you think some of the patterns are, that leaders fall into? When faced with not knowing how to deal with these generational codes or generational conflicts? What are some of the ways you see that coming out in the workplace and negative? Probably mostly negative? What are some of the ways that manifests so that people listening can recognize Oh, this performance issue might not be a performance issue? It might be a generational conflict we’re having How does it show up in the workplace?
Anna Liotta 23:18
So one of the things is that leaders lead from statements, they say, I declare they don’t usually use that word anymore. I declare I do declare, yeah, I do. But they come at it from leaders are supposed to have all the answers. The way it looked for our baby boomers and our traditionalists is a few people went away, they came back and they rolled out the answer. And that was just the way it was, it was mandated, you didn’t have any agency to speak up until you’ve been there at least five years, maybe longer. And people right now are not staying under that kind of culture and that kind of quote, unquote, leadership. So the question of what is leadership? If you think of it on a quadrant, what leaders need to be thinking of, is if you put two lines were Bucha. And in the bottom left hand quadrant, you would see that the old model of leadership 1.0 is a few people having all the answers. That’s the bottom 1.0 leadership for baby boomers and traditionalists. And it was way it was. And when you think about it, leadership came as a model from the military. For our traditionalists. That was like the first time that there was massive leadership training, right. And they brought that training right into corporate America and we say things like deadlines, you know, officers of the company, there’s so many ways that that’s embedded in on the front line. Yeah, on the front line, all of those things. By the way, those are all fight or flight. That’s all trauma triggered leadership, right? And then you look on the top left hand quadrant, and that would be at the top you’d see many The people. And at the very top, you’d see questions on the very right hand side, you would see many people. So what we want to get to is the top right quadrant, where you are having a lot more questions that are generative in nature. And even if you think you know the answer, you’re asking the question of the many people, because our millennials, and our Gen Z, and yes, our Gen Xers, too, will own an answer. If they were part of the dialogue, they need to be part of CO creating the answer to have that level of ownership, because they’ve always been given that opportunity throughout their formative experiences and their educational experiences. And so now in the workplace, if they are not invited into the conversation, if they are not given frequent opportunities to be part of the conversation, they’re not going to own the answer. And they’re going to see this job as a transaction, not as a relationship that I’m invested in so much of my work right now I actually do these choreographies of inviting people in and out of small conversations about big, important ideas, so that 234 People can be having a conversation about what really matters around questions that are generative. And the thing is, it’s not once a year as a retreat, it is in every conversation, how are we choreography? And how are we designing it so that there’s a moment for reflection and a moment for everyone’s voice to come into it? Because then you don’t say they didn’t seem to respect me in the annual review or in the, you know, bi annual review, we’re having frequent conversations that are about their lived experience, and they’re able to tell me a little bit at a time. And that’s when they feel like, okay, we may not start off seeing eye to eye, but you’re at least seeking to understand my perspective. And so I can create space for your perspective as well. Here we go empathy.
Maria Ross 27:08
Well, and I love this, because you know, when this topic does come up in my talks, I talk about the fact not as in depth and detailed as you but the fact that we’ve got to think about where these generations came from, they came from the era of social media and the internet. information was available to anyone at any time. And they had a voice to anyone at any time, through social media, they are used to an environment where they can express an opinion. And whether you think that’s good or bad, it’s the way it is. Now, I think what would be helpful is, do you have any advice for leaders around how you harness that, and yet still make a decision as a leader, because one of the complaints that I hear is, that’s all well and good, but it’s the younger people that come in demanding a senior director title, for example, after they’ve been out of college for two years. While that might be expected or demanded, it doesn’t make sense for the business, to put someone who hasn’t had that experience in that role. The they think they have enough experience. So how can a leader navigate? I guess those are two issues. One, this idea of expecting more expecting to advance faster than the knowledge you might hold warrants? And second, how do you solicit that feedback? And that opinion, yet make a decision where ultimately, you might have to disregard someone’s opinion, that’s where they struggle is like, you know, then they’re mad at me, because I didn’t actually do the thing they wanted me to do. Do you have any advice around those two very frequent scenarios that I hear all the time?
Anna Liotta 28:49
Yes, I do. So I have a whole program that I call training leaders on the 1010 10 conversation. So one of the things that we do is we have indexed many times to using a lot more technology, high tech, and a lot less conversation, high touch. And so one of the thing is when people say they just showed up and asked for to, you know, after two years that they demanded that they were in a much higher position, and they wanted my job. This is a very frequent thing. And then I ask, how often are you talking to them about their future? And then I get crickets. How structured is the conversation about where do you want to go from here? What ideas do you have? What contributions Do you want to make? What are the micro steps that we can put in place for you to start moving forward in that? So in most senior generations experience, jobs were done in leaps. You were in this job, and then you got a bump, right? And you got an elevation and you got a pay raise and all of that kind of thing. But you waited long periods of time in between those bumps for our younger age. interations they’re saying in the interview. So where can I go from here? Number one question recruiters are getting, where can I go from here in the interview? So yes, I’m going to do this job. But then what’s next? What’s next? What’s next? That’s all part of their generational code. The millennials after 911, everything seemed emergent and urgent, they needed to have that sense of how do I plan my future for Gen Z, look at what COVID has done to their expectations about security in the world, right? So they’re coming in and they’re actually having a conversation, they’re like, life
Maria Ross 30:34
is short, we don’t know what’s going to happen, I need to know where I can go next.
Anna Liotta 30:38
That’s right. And I at least need to have a conversation about it. And that’s where leaders are really missing it. So when the 1010 10 We’re having a conversation in the first 10 minutes about what’s happening, what are you excited about what challenges are going on? We’re having this conversation, we train them in that in the second 10 minutes, we’re having a dialogue now with the leaders reflecting back to them, what they see what they hear what they appreciate. And this becomes a dialogue between them. The final 10 minutes is a future mapping conversation. We’re now we’re training leaders how to have a conversation about what micro steps forward can you be making, and what resources are already available to you that most organizations are abysmal, like just horrifically terrible at making available to people. So we actually design those pathways with them about what are those pathways forward, such that, you know, if somebody comes at you out of the blue, and says, I want a job, you know, way higher than my pay rate that’s on you, because you haven’t been in the dialogue with them, you have not been having a conversation, if it’s surprised, it’s up to you to have been having those conversations such that it wasn’t a big surprise,
Maria Ross 31:55
well, and understanding that they want to have those conversations, I think that’s the key there is that it might not have occurred to some of those leaders that those conversations needed to be had. And I love what you’re saying, because it’s making me think about my very first job out of college decades ago, when I worked for a management consultancy. And it was very clearly laid out the steps you’d follow it was you’re an analyst, and then you’re a consultant, and then you’re a manager, and then you’re an associate partner, and then you’re a partner. And there were even, you know, approximate year amounts of how long people spend at each level. But from the moment I got hired, if I’d stayed there, I knew that if I didn’t screw up, and I did my work, I could eventually in fit, you know, 12 to 15 years, advance up to partner level, if I was doing a good job, it was very clearly laid out. And it was so unusual, because all the other jobs that I had interviewed with, in companies coming out of college, I just remember being so struck by that, like, they laid out the trajectory for everybody. And there was an expectation like, don’t even start asking about this until you’ve done more projects. And you’ve been here about two years, you know, but you still had the conversations and every performance evaluation of what do you need to get to that next level? What do you need to get to that next level?
Anna Liotta 33:19
It was just part of the norm of the company. Yeah. And it’s so critical because we have imbued both our millennials and our Gen Z to a whole new level of, you’ve got skills and you’ve got gifts and you’ve got talents. You’re special. You’re special. But not just that, yes, that’s there. But you know, our traditionalists when we look at their generational workplace codes, workers, they were laborers, they got on with a gun.
Maria Ross 33:48
What generation are we talking about when we talk about traditionalists? For those who haven’t read the book yet? Oh, absolutely.
Anna Liotta 33:53
Traditionalists were born in 1927, all the way up to 1944. Then baby boomers starting in 1945. And so are traditionalists. They got on with the company and 30 years later, maybe they got a cake in a gold watch. Right, a handshake and that was it. Our boomers came in and they saw themselves as an employee. Right? That was not just about labor. It was about politically figuring out what was the way to navigate the company. What was the ladder, how long and you ask a baby boomer, what do you do? And they say I work for they don’t even notice but they leak their generational employee code by saying that name of the company in response to what do you do? Then come exerce and they’re not just employees Gen X or saw their parents get a pink slip in the middle of the 80s reception after you know being so loyal to the company hating the boss but being loyal to the company because they felt like they had no other options. And so Gen X are see themselves as free agents. They signed a contract they work the contract it might be about seven to 13 years in that contract. But they always stayed nimble and kept their resume fresh, and their head on a swivel. They were always looking and here’s your
Maria Ross 35:08
company as a Gen X, or I can say that your company owes you nothing. They owe
Anna Liotta 35:12
you nothing. The two way loyalty Street was broken. And they were free agents. So you ask a Gen X are what do you do? And they say I’m in. I’m in technology, I’m in, you know, engineering, manufacturing, they’ll give you the industry, right? You ask a millennial, what do you do, and they say I’m passionate about my gifts are my talents are what I want to make a difference in is they see themselves as talent, not just free agents, not just employees, and then our Gen Z come. And they see themselves as influencers. They’ve had a YouTube channel, they’ve had friends who made millions, they’ve been seeing people collect and start movements, and move through the world. And so they come into the company, and they want to have influence in some way on something. And they already come in very educated and very socially conscious about the world. And so they’re making an increased demand of companies, because they’re ready to like, that’s
Maria Ross 36:18
my thing, right? And so there’s such a like, little nugget of advice there. If you’re dealing with a disgruntled Gen Z, or give them something to own, give them something to influence and shape. That’s right, and see where they go with it.
Anna Liotta 36:32
And then check in frequently in that first 10 minutes of the 1010 10. What’s up? What are you excited about? What ideas do you have, by the way, I didn’t say anything about work in that they may share personal, they may share work, because we’re in the reality of, I get to bring my whole self to work. And that’s a massively important thing for leaders to understand. If I am not welcome to bring my whole self to work. This is a transactional situation I’m in and anything goes sideways, and I’m on a job board, click, and I’m working for someone else. I have no attachment to you. I would love
Maria Ross 37:13
to bring up another nugget that jumped out at me in the book, which was around the differences in generational codes. You’ve touched on a lot of them here. But this idea of generations being influenced by the concept that information is power that I have to hoard and younger generations where they grew up in the internet age. Information is accessible and it’s democratized for all. Do you see that? How do you see that playing out in the workplace?
Anna Liotta 37:42
So it’s so critical, you know, our baby boomers were the ones that were Information is power, so hold it close to your vest. They heard petition? Yeah, competition, it was all about who had the most and who, you know, come kiss my ring. And maybe I’ll let you
Maria Ross 37:57
get something it’s there’s nothing left for me like a very scarcity mindset. Yes, very scarcity
Anna Liotta 38:01
mindset, okay, our Gen Xers because there were not enough of them to, you know, compete, they said, you know, what we need to do, we need to figure out how to distribute information and be paid for the being the person that figured out how to distribute it. So that’s when you know, Google comes in, that’s when Red fin comes in. That’s where salary.com, like, all these solutions, to be the one that spread the information, sharing information is power. For our millennials, it was about customizing the information, taking all that data that’s out there, and being able to customize it and say, That’s the power is the hyper customization. And for Gen Z, it’s all about the democratization of it and saying, how do we take the information and use it to move something forward? How do we get people to be following us as influencers, and really leveraging the information to move people forward? So now the interesting thing is like, you see people really getting concerned about chat GDP and all of the AI are Gen Zers are not at all concerned about this, because they’re absolutely clear. Yes, jobs will go away, but new jobs will come up. And the thing is that it’s no longer about can you just find information? Can you take the information that’s available in the world? And figure out what is the piece of that information that is critical to moving the world or the work forward? And how do you do that with the information? And yes, customizing it, you know, for our millennials and spreading it for Gen Xers. But it’s really now about what is the voice that is needed to share this information in a way that the world can hear it. How can I influence you with this information? Not just can I find it? It’s not just data.
Maria Ross 39:50
So good, so good. And I want to stress again that I want folks to read the book because it’s just full of great insights but also some advice on how How to deal with these generational rubs. So I know we’re not talking too much about that, like the tips for people but pick up the book because it’s got lots of tips for how to navigate some of these. I think you call those how to be generationally savvy in the book.
Anna Liotta 40:15
There’s cliff notes. Now, they would prefer SparkNotes. Now, yeah, exactly.
Maria Ross 40:20
Now we’re dating ourselves, right? Yeah,
Anna Liotta 40:22
we’re totally Gen Xers. I always say like, my
Maria Ross 40:25
Gen X is showing my notes question I want to leave us on before we wrap. And you know, it’s a big question. But there was something that you said in a pre call that we had, which was this concept of, with some of the younger generations, we might have to teach them empathy, because of the way that they grew up in terms of never having to worry about an adult in their life versus some older generations. Can you talk a little bit about that? And for any leader that’s going, Oh, now I have to do another thing? What’s some of your advice around how you can help your young without saying you need to learn empathy? Right? How can we navigate that? Talk a little bit about that concept, and then what leaders can do to better model and you know, not to be patronizing, but teach how to have two way empathy in the relationship at work. So
Anna Liotta 41:18
it’s an interesting thing, because if you think of parenting as a pendulum, you’ll see that our Gen Xers are over here. And they’re like, super under protected, right? But then the pendulum swung all the way back into the over protected and for our first wave of millennials are baby boomers who under protected their Gen X or kids came back in and Whoa, did they over protect their millennials, and we see it show up in things like, oh, adulting adulting is so hard like those like this comes out of the early Gen Z, early Millennials mouse and you know, I’m still trying to figure out how to adult, that’s a signal that we over parented, or over protected. And you know, we call that helicopter parenting, Snowplow parenting, you know, you name it, what, but it, it got swung too far. It got to be swung back to the middle as our Gen Xers started to parent, our Gen z’s. And now in the second wave of early millennials, parenting, we’re seeing even more swing back to the middle, I bring that up with empathy, because the younger the person, the more we’ve actually learned to start training them in empathy. That means that right now we have young people in the workplace that are between, let’s say, 30, to maybe 2021, that are in that spot, particularly of not having been required as much to really have the empathy. Our early Millennials have learned more of it, because they’ve been in a little bit longer, but they were also the, you know, helicopter parenting. So that’s just to give you a context that this is all happening on a spectrum. It is nuanced. And and I don’t want to just say absolute, you know, nobody has empathy. But the thing is, how we teach them to have empathy is, as you said, the number one thing of empathy is get curious, and get curious by inviting them to interview another person about some of their early leadership experiences, or what was it like when you entered the workplace? Not so they can say when I was her age, right? Because the moment you say, when I was, you’re now into nostalgia, and let’s just be really, really clear. We remember ourselves as heroes, we were the best version
43:34
of ourselves. And that is rarely like absolutely,
Anna Liotta 43:40
almost never actually how it happened. Right? Right. Like, oh, yeah, I didn’t mind working those doubles. I didn’t mind you know,
Maria Ross 43:46
made me stronger. Yes, exactly.
Anna Liotta 43:50
rub some dirt in it, right? Not at all, how it went down. But we have these lovely nostalgia memories of ourselves. So I’m not talking about that. I’m talking about inviting people to truly listen to the other person. And some of the experiences they had, and doing this more than once doing this so that I can actually kind of get like, oh my gosh, that was really difficult. You see this in many of the different communities like, you know, when you look at people sharing about their being gay being lesbian, gob TQ Plus, when you ask them about their lived experience early on, many of our younger generations will be like, really, like that seems like, I mean, certain things that I’m experiencing right now are because you fought on my behalf. So when I think about dei be, I think about, you know, our traditionalists were our first generation of civil rights activists. They made the conversation for civil rights mainstream. Then our baby boomers came along and it wasn’t just about civil rights. It was about being politically correct. And right now that has a stank on it. But it’s really important because it was the conversation of how do we bring civil rights chemically into organizations, what do we measure? What do we count? What do we protect? Right? So affirmative action was a newer conversation that they brought in, then Gen X came in, and it was now about inviting more voices into the room. So diversity became the new momentum thread. And it was having more people at the table from different backgrounds, different perspectives, different lived experiences, as millennials came in, it was about inclusion, having them be part of setting the agenda, not just in the room, not just at the table, but they are planning and leading and moving it forward. And then as Gen Z came in, it’s about belonging, not just being in the room, not just setting the table, but not having to fit into the conversation, not having to present in a way that would be quote, unquote, acceptable. And so each one of these generations when they realize like, what is the work and the shoulders that I stand on, that’s where I could now have a different level of empathy to see how is this progressing. And you can take this into any conversation, workplace rights, you know, you can take any any of those spaces we could talk forever about, if you want to go through each one of those pieces, they all have a generational cadence to them. So when we bring these conversations explicitly, and that’s what I do a lot of my keynotes and a lot of my virtual programs, I’m going into organizations, and I’m bringing that context, such that people can build upon that conversation of singing, I’ve never even seen it that way. I’ve never even thought of it that way from those different generational mixes, that’s when I have a new opening.
Maria Ross 46:38
I love that. And one of the many strategies that exist is something I heard about a few years ago, where companies were intentionally setting up mentoring relationships with people across generations. So that the senior, you know, VP, who was the boomer was learning about social media from their, you know, younger millennial colleague, the younger millennial was learning about, oh, now I understand some of the norms, they grew up with some of the work ethic ideas, they were starting to understand each other because they were in a mentoring relationship. And it was mentoring both ways, because it was the older person learning about the younger generation and the younger person learning about where the older generation had come from. And I remember listening to this interview on NPR, and they interviewed two people that were involved in a mentoring relationship at whatever company, they were profiling. And the younger person said, I never knew that these things happened in the workplace until I had this mentoring relations. I never knew things were like this before, I had this relationship with this person. So getting them to get to know each other as people, and being able to open up those conversations and not so much in a like when I was your age, but just wow, that’s really interesting that this is what it’s like now, because, you know, it was like this before, and then the younger person going really wow, I didn’t even know that was a thing before in the workplace. So those kinds of conversations taking place through very intentional mentoring relationships is one way to deal. And
Anna Liotta 48:05
I would actually add to that, a nuance, which is I would take out the word mentoring, because mentoring has a context to it. That is directional, you can say reverse mentoring, sure. But I would actually encourage people to be thinking about shared dialogues, where I am sharing something with you, and you’re sharing something with me, but we’re taking out the power positionality, the hierarchy, the hierarchy, exactly. So and we also need to set a context for the dialog and then set some design to it, because people will default back to their behavioral economics in one of your previous podcast, you brought up behavioral economics, we do what uses the least amount of calories to do, right, our conscious brain or unconscious brain, we need to set up the conditions for success by removing some of the things that default us back into our unconscious brain and have the power dynamic immediately be defaulted. And that’s why in so many of the programs that I do when I’m designing Appreciative Inquiry into the space, where we move people in and out of different choreographies and into small group spaces and zoom, that’s really important that it’s designed in a way that there’s no hierarchy embedded, that every person comes to it with the same vulnerability. And that’s a really big part of empathy is are you willing to be vulnerable? And are you willing, so it can’t just be about your job? Or how do I get your job because there’s no vulnerability present in that? And so only I shouldn’t say there’s only on one side is it is vulnerability present, right? So we actually have to design opportunities and moments for people to share their humanity and, you know, bring in their passion for their family. So one of the fastest ways to get people to on Understand a younger generation is to give them an example of their own kids or their grandkids. Many times after my keynote, people come up to me and say, oh my gosh, I understand my grandkid, I
50:08
understand my kid now.
Anna Liotta 50:10
And, you know, they’re like everything you said it was them, then then them, right. And this is a whole different world to them. Because before that young person in their office just ticked them off.
Maria Ross 50:20
Love it, we’ll leave it there. Because I think that whole concept of vulnerability is the underpinning of all of this to help us bridge those, you know, as they call them, the generational divides, and especially in the workplace, just making so many assumptions. And that’s what I love about your book, unlocking generational codes, pick it up, it’s really a treasure trove of helping a leader navigate those relationships in a way that will help them improve performance and improve engagement and just for everyone to sort of be happier at work. So thank you for that. We’re gonna have all your links in the show notes on a thank you so much for sharing your insights today. But for folks on the go, where’s a great place, they can find out more about your work.
Anna Liotta 51:04
So my website on eliana.com is awesome. And you know what? Connect with me on LinkedIn.
Maria Ross 51:10
Great, thank you. And thank you everyone for listening to another great episode of the empathy edge podcast. Be sure to connect with me on Instagram at Red slice Maria. And if you liked today’s episode, you know what to do, please share it with a colleague or a friend. And don’t forget to rate and review those are very important. And until next time, please remember that cash flow creativity and compassion are not mutually exclusive. Take care and be kind. For more on how to achieve radical success through empathy, visit the empathy edge.com. There you can listen to past episodes, access shownotes and free resources. Book me for a Keynote or workshop and sign up for our email list to get new episodes, insights, news and events. Please follow me on Instagram at Red slice Maria. Never forget empathy is your superpower. Use it to make your work and the world a better place.
